Trip Damage and Delamination
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Printed Date: 28 Apr 2024 at 11:34am
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Topic: Trip Damage and Delamination
Posted By: pedwards2932
Subject: Trip Damage and Delamination
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2021 at 9:21am
| I have damage on the front right lower corner of my r189. I have pulled the entire lower railing that protects where the sides meet the floor. This was caused by poor fit at front corner and factory tried to cover it up by using a lot of extra screws to try to pull it all together. The metal plate in the front of the trailer has about 1/2" air gap and they cut back part of the fiberglass to try and pull the railing in. I decided to fix the delaminations by injecting epoxy resin and clamping. Then I will replace the railing and try to get it to fit properly. There is a delamination that is beside the front storage hatch. Does anyone know how hard it is to pull the hatch out and how you go about removing it? I can fix all the delams if I could pull the hatch. |
Replies:
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2021 at 6:02pm
| I got the injectors which are essentially large syringes with silicon tubing. I have epoxy ordered as well. It is a slow cure epoxy. Once I inject the epoxy I have a rubber roller that I used for putting on veneer to roll the delams enough to spread the epoxy then I will clamp them flat. This should fix the accessable delams. There are some that would be more difficult in that I would have to remove a window or a hatch. Just not sure how hard that is? I could drill a small hole at the top of the delam and inject it that way then I would just have a small hole to fix. I assume that Forrest River can supply matching paint? |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2021 at 9:50am
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Okay I have started the repair and I have to say I am disappointed with Forrest River. The construction issues I see caused the problems. 1. It does not appear as though they used marine plywood? 2. There is no sealer on the edges of the plywood 3. Where there is an improper fit the solution is more screws 4. The hatch framing had very little sealer so the frame easily let water in.
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Posted By: campman
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2021 at 10:02am
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Wow, hats off to your ability to deal with your delamination issues! I can only add my distant support to you and hope you can overcome the manufacturing deficiencies.
You would think something as simple as marine grade plywood where appropriate and sealing ends cuts etc would be the standard, not the exception. It all costs more and takes more time, both not welcome in production facilities. Good luck and I will continue reading your posts on your findings and repairs! I am sure others are reading and learning through this as well. Andy ------------- Andy and Laurie '16 F150 5.0 4X4 w/factory tow pkg '21 RP192 "If the women don't find you handsome...at least let them find you handy!" Red-Green |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2021 at 10:29am
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This shows the delamination around the hatch area  This shows the front corner delamintaion area and air gap on metal  This shows how little sealer was used on the hatch  |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2021 at 10:36am
| I worked on boats for the first 25 years of my employment. One thing I know about trying to laminate fiberglass to plywood is you are dealing with a pretty smooth surface. You would need to first use a penetrating resin (thinned down alot) to get it to go deep into the wood. Then you would laminate the panel with full strength resin. I have never seen this done that it doesn't eventually let go. When you don't seal the edges then moisture is going to find it's way in and it speeds up the process. |
Posted By: campman
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2021 at 11:44am
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I would imagine that is why Forest River and others are using Azdel in their walls, etc now. To avoid the inevitable delam. issues. We see so many older trailers, RV's etc where the fiberglass is releasing from the substrate.
Now if they would only upgrade the floor to avoid the water ingress damage that has occurred to others when water gets into it. But that would cost more. Andy ------------- Andy and Laurie '16 F150 5.0 4X4 w/factory tow pkg '21 RP192 "If the women don't find you handsome...at least let them find you handy!" Red-Green |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2021 at 12:33pm
| Mine is a 2018 and it is outrageous to see this happen in three years. I don't know how FR was attaching the sides to the aluminum framing? It isn't screwed on as near as I can tell.....no sign of glue or sealer along lower edge so I guess they were relying on the lower aluminum railing to hold it in place....makes no sense to not have done something stronger. When did they go to Azdel? These aren't cheap trailers so they should do better. |
Posted By: campman
Date Posted: 26 Jun 2021 at 3:23pm
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I am guessing they started using Azdel in or about 2019? I havent researched it but for sure had it in 2020. Ours is supposed to come up to Sudbury here in Ontario next week so do I know they aren't cheap! We ordered it on 2nd of March. So much to check when we do our walk through. We have our fingers crossed that it will be a keeper.
Andy ------------- Andy and Laurie '16 F150 5.0 4X4 w/factory tow pkg '21 RP192 "If the women don't find you handsome...at least let them find you handy!" Red-Green |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 6:53am
It takes a lot of clamps to get everything in place. |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2021 at 9:11am
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Not perfect but much better than before. Now I need to go along the bottom and fix the rest of the issues. This is a slow process but I feel like I am making headway.  |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2021 at 9:23am
| Not sure if everyone is interested in my exploits with this repair but I do believe if you own an rPOD with similar construction delamination is going to occur eventually. This may not be a perfect repair but I believe it will hold up for several years if the trailer is maintained. What I am seeing on the front and lower area is just poor workmanship on the part of Forrest River. |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2021 at 10:37am
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Keep on going pedwards, we're paying attention. Just don't have anything constructive to add ATM. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: campman
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2021 at 3:19pm
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Same here, following along as you do a great job with the dog's breakfast of repairs needed! I have also realized my clamp collection is way lacking.... ;-)
Andy ------------- Andy and Laurie '16 F150 5.0 4X4 w/factory tow pkg '21 RP192 "If the women don't find you handsome...at least let them find you handy!" Red-Green |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 1:53pm
No it's not some medieval torture device....I had to build a frame work that allows me to use the trailer chassis and a clamp to pull the clamp boards in tight. It doesn't require a lot of tension to pull the delam in but the flatter you can get it the better. |
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 3:56pm
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Keep up the good work pedwards. To me your work is like poetry in motion, good stuff. Keep posting, a lot of us are learning and hopefully retaining. My 177 is almost 10.5 years old. Fortunately nothing like this has occured . . . . . . . yet. ------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: Pod People
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 9:46pm
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I am following also. I have done a fair amount of fiberglass work on small boats. Messy, but effective. See,s like you are doing a good job. Keep plugging away. Wear a mask if you are sanding Vann ------------- Vann & Laura 2015 RPod 179 https://postimg.cc/0zwKrfB9"> 
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Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 9:31am
Here is my contraption in action. The 2 clamps go under to the trailer frame and pull it in tight. I use wooden wedges (used in door framing) to tighten up the upper board. As I said it doesn't take a lot of tension to get everything in place Another note that may be of help. I had a lot of sealer along bottom edge to remove and without a doubt the best tool is your fingernail. I carefully scraped with a plastic putty knife and laquer thinner but when you want to avoid scratching the fingernail can't be beat. Also no sanding required for this operation just an injector syringe, slow cure epoxy, laminate roller and clamps. I do use the thin wedges to force some epoxy in as well.
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Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 10:40am
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Hopefully, the Azdel construction of the newer R-Pods will greatly reduce the occurrence of delamination. ------------- Alan 2022 R-Pod 196 "RaptoRPod" 2022 Ram 1500 Lone Star 4x4 Three cats |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2021 at 10:52am
| It would be nice.....won't do me much good unless I decide to sell mine. Used rPODs go pretty high but getting a new one will cost alot and the wait time is considerable. I am retired and at that age where I am not sure how many years I am going to do camping.....I am guessing 2 or 3 years so I am hoping my repairs will last a long time as long as I keep ahead of any issues that arise. |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2021 at 7:25am
| I glued up the last bit and it seems like everything is solid now.....not perfect maybe 90%. I am looking into how to fix the front corner where all this started. They cut the under railing at that point so there are no screws holding the last 6" of rail. I am going add a piece of 90 degree steel and screw it to the frame to support. Will add pics when I get it done. |
Posted By: chasl
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2021 at 6:47am
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Your 90% is likely better than it was new. You could open a pod restoration business : ) ------------- cl |
Posted By: campman
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2021 at 7:16am
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+1 to chasl!
Nice to see someone do these repairs and document them for the rest of us. Not that I would wish this on anyone of course, but it is a good reference. Andy ------------- Andy and Laurie '16 F150 5.0 4X4 w/factory tow pkg '21 RP192 "If the women don't find you handsome...at least let them find you handy!" Red-Green |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 1:54pm
I was able to finish this section of the repair. Came out pretty good. I had to get some paint for touch up and found that was not easy. Forrest River gave me the paint code but no one here was able to mix it. I had to go thru the folks that mix it for FR.....$50 for a pint. What you will find on the lower railing is FR used very little caulking on outside edge to avoid clean up. This is another issue as to why it didn't hold up. Next up is fixing the other side  |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 1:56pm
| Just for general information when cleaning up the sealer I found using charcoal lighter fluid for clean up worked really well. Lacquer thinner is too strong on the decals. |
Posted By: chasl
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2021 at 2:06pm
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Great work ------------- cl |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 10:15am
Okay got it done. Fixed the delamination then resealed. When I put it together I used stainless screws and washers for extra holding power. The holes tend to distort the aluminum from tightening which is why I used the washers. FR had not put a screw in the last bit of the under railing which is why it let go. Honest to goodness they use some of the crappiest plywood I have ever seen.....looks like luan underlayment. I still have to fix the crack in the fiberglass....should be an easy fix...hope the paint I have matches. |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 10:21am
| Just an aside here. I used to be a boat dealer and there was a wide variation in quality of boats.....usually price dependent. We still would see problems with even the priciest boats just not as many. The stuff I have seen on this trailer wouldn't have happened even in our cheapest boats. Quality control seems to be non existent. I would assume FR doesn't get sued enough to change their behavior. I am sure this isn't just a FR problem probably occurs across the board. I think I got what we used to call a "Friday quitting time trailer" or a "Monday hungover trailer" Ok off my soapbox....... |
Posted By: campman
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 12:55pm
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I am impressed by how well you repaired and finished it. I know you said your background helped out but you have documented and put together a great reference here for us...thanks again.
Andy ------------- Andy and Laurie '16 F150 5.0 4X4 w/factory tow pkg '21 RP192 "If the women don't find you handsome...at least let them find you handy!" Red-Green |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 1:34pm
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You are never going to see trailer companies get sued for the results of inferior workmanship on their RV's. Despite the recent price increases for new smaller end trailers, the cost of litigation exceeds the value of the trailers. The defects of some products, such as cars, lead to serious personal injuries; however, it is pretty rare that anyone ever suffers a serious injury as a result of a partial wall delamination or a leaky plumbing line. The only realistic hope for product improvement is market pressure, but that isn't going to happen given the realities of the RV market's price sensitivity. No one wants to pay the price for quality and manufactures have little incentive to build quality. Perhaps, some foreign competition would help as id did in the automotive and consumer electronics industries. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 3:23pm
| Agree with what you are saying......it just goes against my grain that they would use such crappy plywood. They base their materials on overall cost of all their trailers not cost per trailer. When I was doing boats, the manufacturers would complain about the cost of resin driving up the cost. I asked how many gallons resin went into their boat and you would find that the resin was a tiny fraction (boats didn't use that much resin) of what they paid for materials and advertising. The management at the trailer companies is where the issue lies.....if they did proper quality control you wouldn't see such nonsense being delivered.....sorry there is just no excuse. |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 3:55pm
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That is one of the reasons that FR changed to using Azdell instead of Lauan. The newer trailers should not experience the same issues. I'm not saying they won't have issues, just not delamination ones from the plywood. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 5:53pm
| Unfortunately that change to Azdell won't help me. I'm gonna fix it an use it for a few years and sell it. That was my original plan as I don't plan on doing this forever as I am 67. So we'll see how long I can handle it. Could sell now and get a good price but then buying another will cost a lot more. |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 6:42pm
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Good, cheap, fast choose any two. RV manufacturers, with a few exceptions, choose cheap and fast. We've sold our rpod now but will probably get another RV one day when the time is right. Having had class A, B, and C RVs as well as the trailer I'm sold on the trailer option. But I think my next one will be a Casita or similar fiberglass trailer. Cramped but better constructed and not so prone to water intrusion. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 8:46pm
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Unless you go for an Oliver or Bigfoot. Those are larger, but from what I have seen and read, very well constructed. Of course, that is the cost factor. Both are quite expensive. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 5:52am
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Ive heard good things about them. And 4 seasons capable, within reason. But they're also heavy, so a heavier tow vehicle would be required as well. So more $$$. For me the 5000 lb tow rated SUV is a sweet spot. It's heavy enough to tow a light trailer safely but still comfortable as a daily driver. I think a Casita would be big enough for the two of us while still light enough for mid size SUV towing.
Not knocking rpods, they are nice trailers and fit for purpose, just not made with longevity in mind. Anyhow, that is for later, we're not going anywhere for longer than a few days for awhile. For now, I'm shopping for a light aircraft that would let us go on several hundred mile 2 to 4 day trips without becoming exhausted by spending the whole trip driving. If you think used trailer pricing has spiked just look at what's happening with general aviation aircraft pricing recently. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: fwunder
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 6:07am
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I've been obsessed with Olivers for the last three years - ever since I saw one in person. Will need a new TV. My current TV only has 125K miles and runs great so that's a tough decision. Our 2014 rPod still works well for us, although I do tire of the maintenance and putting her back together occasionally. I figure my new F150 ecoboost w/7.2Kw inverter and Oliver Elite II will set me back about $150K. I keep looking for an old rich Uncle...then realize I *am* the old Uncle. ------------- 2014 RPod 178 => https://goo.gl/CV446f - MyMods and Buying Habits 2008 4Runner Limited 4.0-liter V6 Yes, those are wild ponies dining on grass while dumping tanks! |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 8:10am
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The Oliver and Bigfoot look like really nice travel trailers. They remind me of travel trailers I saw while visiting Spain. Really nice joinery and appear to be carefully put together. It'd be interesting to import some of the nice European trailers that are more competitively priced to give a little competition to companies like FR. We would probably see some improvements in quality as we did in the automotive industry. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 11:07am
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We toured the https://www.scamptrailers.com/ - Scamp factory a few years ago, and we liked what looked like quality construction. At that time they appeared to be reasonably priced, but I haven't looked at them in a while. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |