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battery full but no power?

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Topic: battery full but no power?
Posted By: campingtrio
Subject: battery full but no power?
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 1:24pm
Still kind of new to this whole thing so this might be a really dumb question (and I hope one with an exceptionally easy answer!)

Control panel shows battery as 3/4 full, but none of the normal basic onboard functions are working.  (lights, radio, etc.).  Don't see any fuses/circuit breakers blown or popped.  It was sitting for a couple months, but we did plug it in to shore power and turn everything on last weekend, and then unplugged shore power, and it seemed to be working fine on the battery.  

Yesterday, we tried plugging in a solar panel to the side solar panel for the first time, wondering if that might have done something unexpected?

Or is there an idiot switch somewhere we've forgotten to flip somewhere?  Ouch



Replies:
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 1:43pm
Sounds like a tripped bpreaker or blown fuse to me. Its possible that the solar controller got connected in reverse polarity and caused that. Check all the fuses carefully, starting with the two 40A ones. Also, if you don't already have one get a multimeter, they are invaluable in troubleshooting. You can use it to confirm where between the battery and the trailer loads you're losing voltage.

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: campingtrio
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 2:10pm
Well we plugged in shore power again and everything started working, so I'm guessing it's not a fuse.  And then we unplugged that and re-plugged in the solar, and everything was working again that way.  Unplugged the solar and within a minute or two everything stopped working, so you'd guess it's that the battery isn't holding a charge.  But what's weird is the control panel shows the battery now full.  


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 2:36pm
How old is your battery and if you have had it awhile, how have you been maintaining it?  As offgrid wisely stated above you need a multimeter.  Then you can check the voltage of your battery.  Firstly make certain that your electrolyte levels are full or nearly full, if one of those six cells is empty, your battery is likely toast.  Fill any low cells to full using distilled water.  Next check battery voltage using your multimeter - should read at least 12.2volts at the low end.  If it reads that low you need to put it on a trickle charger (2 amp is great) for at least 24 hours.  Read it again at that point, let it set for a few hours and then read again.   Those two readings should be nearly identical if the battery is good.  Also make sure the connections at the battery are tight using a wrench, getting it finger tight doesn't cut it here.

I just re-read your original post and am thinking out loud, how long did the battery sit being connected to the pod?  There are numerous phantom draws that will deplete the battery down below acceptable levels after 10-14 days.  If you don't plan on using it within a week either disconnect the ground (-) cable or hook up a disconnect switch so you can more easily turn off battery power when not using your r-pod.


-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: campingtrio
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 5:18pm
Okay, sounds like good info.   There goes another weekend... :(  

Newb question though, what is the problem with the battery being "drained below acceptable levels" after 10-14 days?  We left our regular car battery without turning it over for about 6 weeks during COVID, and yeah, it was dead when we came out to use it, but a simple jumpstart seemed to get us back in shape and the battery seems fine now.  And we don't do any maintenance of our car battery and have had it for probably 4-5 years.   So wondering why the trailer car battery wouldn't just be fine again once we connect to shore power to charge it up?  (Someone is probably shaking their head out there with how clueless we are...remember, newbs).  

On another note, it was working fine on solar for a while today, and then we unplugged the solar and again it was working fine for a good while on battery (couple hours at least), and then we replugged the solar in to recharge it once it died...and then it started getting weird...the lights started rhythmically blinking while on battery.  So now I don't know if this thing is possessed or is that is what batteries do when they get close to end of life...




Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 6:12pm
Speaking from experience, no it is not possessed, but I experienced similar (lights rhythmically blinking) when I had hand tightened the connections at the battery.  By simply using a wrench, and I only got an additional 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn, that was rectified-problem solved.

Your auto has (and the pod doesn't) a generator so that once you are running, the battery will eventually get 100% charged.  Your pod could do the same IF you plug it into shore power and leave it plugged in allowing the online converter to charge the battery.  Your battery is probably quite low in voltage (again using that multimeter that you are going to purchase) and when you hooked up the solar the battery was slowly charging back up but when you unhooked the solar the battery (being close to low anyway) after a short while would give you the same indicators that it did previously, low or dim lights, ect.

There are many podders who leave their r-pod plugged in 24/7 when not in use and it works for them.  In my case (northern Michigan) I pull both 12v batteries out 1st week in November, check electrolyte and give each a 2 amp trickle charge for 24-36 hours, disconnect from charger, then set both on a concrete floor in our unheated garage.  They 'hibernate' there until the following end of April or first week of May (depends on weather) and the process of charging is done again before being re-installed in our 177.  These 12v Interstate group size 24 batteries are used a lot as we usually boondock, they are now 10 years old and still performing well.  One thing of many things I learned here was not to drain the battery down below 60% S.O.C. or 12.2v (using your multimeterSmile) to keep an eye on things before recharging. 

I have benefited greatly from this forum for many years.  The people on this forum are great.


-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 7:57pm
Car batteries can recover from being fully discharged once of twice because they are not called upon to provide much energy. All they have to dois produce some current for a few seconds.

It does sound like a either bad connection or battery at it's end of life. Either will create a high resistance which will cause the voltage to fly up and down as your solar controller attempts to regulate the amount of charging. Charge it and retest it or take we it to a shop and have them test it.



-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: campingtrio
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 9:00pm
Multimeter on order.  Now I have to figure out how to use that :)  

And next weekend's project will be to look inside the battery as described, which I've never done (in my defense it's encased in a really tight anti-theft security bracket which is a real PITA to get off...so have not wanted to get in there and poke around if I don't have to).

So, it sounds like we also either need (or need both) a trickle charger (have no idea what that is (hello Google) or any specific recommendations from anyone?) and/or a disconnect switch (again, any recommendations?) going forward?  We're likely using the pod about once every 3-4 weeks going forward at best, not more often than that, which means if it is the battery getting drained due to non-use we could have this problem again (unless as jato said, we just leave it constantly plugged into to shore power...but if we're away from home and not in the trailer, I don't really want to do that).

So, any recommendations on trickle charger and/or disconnect switch?


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 3:21am
Take it one step at a time. First determine if your current battery is still good or needs to be replaced.

Then worry about how to keep it or a new one charged properly. You can do that via the onboard charger, by removing the battery and putting it in a charger at home, by using your solar kit, or by intermittently charging it and keeping it disconnected while in storage. Which is best depends on your storage and usage situation.

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: campingtrio
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2021 at 12:54pm
Took battery out and over to mechanic for testing since the meter will take a bit.  Yep, battery tostito.  He also said in his opinion it's not a very good quality battery.  Any thoughts anyone has on the "best" battery to get as replacement (or what to avoid?)


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2021 at 3:50pm
Most on this forum will direct you to a pair of 6v golf cart batteries that you hook up in series to get 12 volts.  If you plan on boondocking a lot off grid this is the preferred method.  A pair of 6 volt Trojans T-105 will weigh in at about 125 lbs. total. 

If your plan is camping where electric is available than all you need is a single 12v.  In my case I had a single 12v and then purchased another.  My goal was to get a pair of 6 volts when these decided to retire - but nothing doing - they still perform amazingly well for a set of 10 year old batteries.  They are 12v Interstates, group size 24, deep cycle marine batteries.  You have already read the maintenance on these above.  I usually boondock for up to 6 to 7 days at a time and the pair of 12v suit my needs very well.  The two 12v batteries weigh in at 98 lbs. total, so slightly less weight on your a-frame than the two 6 volts.

Others who want to spend the big $$$ go with lithium.  I am not well versed in those but others on here are who will let you know more about those 'goldbergs' if you are interested and have deep pockets.

Also, I camp basic, no solar or generator.  If you plan on utilizing either or both of those methods you can get by with less battery than what I currently use.


-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: Colt
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 10:10am
Here's a pretty good chart for State Of Charge for various batteries. There is some additional variation based on small chemistry variations in batteries. Call that bug dust, but you can ask your battery maker for voltage specific to its battery.

https://www.energymatters.com.au/components/battery-voltage-discharge/

I would go with an AGM battery for convenience and higher output, deep cycle, of course. You might ask for a trolling motor battery, or a "solar" battery.

https://lifelinebatteries.com/2019/11/pros-cons-of-agm-batteries/

It's best not to pull a battery down below 50% SOC, but a deep cycle battery will allow you to go as low as 30% with reduced, but acceptable life. Go as big as you're willing to afford (size AND amp-hrs), but remember all that weight is very close to your hitch.

-------------
John
'16 R-Pod 180


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 10:56am
There is no one best battery. Depends on how you use your pod, how you feel about maintenance,how you'll charge it and store it. Like all things in life there are tradeoffs. My recommendations are:

If you camp without hookups often and have the tow vehicle tongue weight capacity then 2 6V golf cart batteries are a good way to go. Flooded batteries you can put distilled water in are the most cost effective and tolerate charging well, but you have to check the water level every few weeks. Otherwise spend the money and get AGM batteries.Just don't overcharge them.

If you mostly camp with hookups and when camping without them don't use much power then get a single marine dual use battery, which will handle some cycling but probably have a longer lifetime for you because of chemistry differences. Flooded or AGM, same criteria as for the golf cart batteries.

If you never camp without hookups then just about any battery will do.

If you boondock and are a heavy user but can't tolerate the tongue weight then you either need to install a lithium system or move some weight rearward to counterbalance the heavy batteries on the tongue.

In all cases you will need to keep the batteries charged while in storage, but the golf cart batteries will need more frequent charging because they have a higher self discharge rate. Either disconnect the rpod from the batteries to get rid of the parasitic loads or leave them on solar or onboard charger all the time.

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Ben Herman
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 4:42pm
One other factor is solar, and whether you live somewhere with lots of sun. I'm in Colorado and we have sun virtually all days, so a single deep cycle marine/rv battery is fine, since when we're  camping the solar panels are always topping up the battery (100 watt  Renogy suitcase solar charger). 


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 6:47pm
No one is more in favor of solar than I am. I worked in that field my whole career, almost 40 years. But you cannot count on it being there any given day. That is the reality, you either need a couple of days or of batteryl storage or an alternative charging system. To run high reliability off grid smlolar systems in CO we would typicamlly have 4-6 sunless days battery storage. Our requirements aren't that critcal and can be met by just running the TV if needed and recharging from the alternator if you don't want to carry a generator around and don't need a/c.

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 10:22am
I agree with that. I utilized remote solar communications sites for over a decade. My general rule of thumb for a 100% solar site was 10 days without sun. Even that was not enough at least one winter when we went almost 30 days without sun.

-------------
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: Ben Herman
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 10:29am
Originally posted by offgrid

No one is more in favor of solar than I am. I worked in that field my whole career, almost 40 years. But you cannot count on it being there any given day. That is the reality, you either need a couple of days or of batteryl storage or an alternative charging system. To run high reliability off grid smlolar systems in CO we would typicamlly have 4-6 sunless days battery storage. Our requirements aren't that critcal and can be met by just running the TV if needed and recharging from the alternator if you don't want to carry a generator around and don't need a/c.

This make sense, but our tolerance levels are lower  for  camping. If we go more than a few days without sun while camping out here, our next destination is home! Like you, our requirements are pretty minimal - fridge and hot water on lp, little use of furnace except a  few minutes in the am to warm things up, all lights are LED and we have a few battery lamps as well.


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 11:46am
If we waited for only sunny days to camp here in the east we would never go camping.

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Ben Herman
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 12:22pm
Offgrid, why I left NJ 40 yrs ago! 250 sunny days a year where I live.


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 12:27pm






-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by offgrid

If we waited for only sunny days to camp here in the east we would never go camping.


+1


-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 3:52pm
And I left CA and moved back to the East because I like the rain. Things are supposed to be green in the summer and not burn up in wildfires all the time.

Spring has sprung. Grass has greened up and is starting to grow like crazy here in SWVA now, just took the chains off and put the bush hog back on the tractor. Whoo hoo!

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by offgrid

Spring has sprung. Grass has greened up and is starting to grow like crazy here in SWVA now, just took the chains off and put the bush hog back on the tractor. Whoo hoo!


Nice.  We have some green grass, golf course looks really inviting as the dormant fertilizer put down last October is doing its job.  Won't get any growth for awhile as soil temps are way too cold for that to happen.   Big thing happening now is collecting maple sap for syrup.  It's is wonderful thing. SWEET !


-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 10:12am
Part of what I love about living where we do in CA is that we get the nice green for a month or two (starting right about now), but along about June, the damn grass stops growing, and I don't have to mow anymore until the following April.

-------------
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 11:38am
GG, I grew up in that area, know it very well. It's still "home".

But I'll happily mow all summer and fall as long as everything stays green and doesn't turn brown. The problem is that coastal CA seasonal growth cycle creates severe fire risk. I fought enough small fires working for the CA state parks back in the day (Cowell and Big Basin mostly) not to want to deal with that tinder dry condition any more. BB is gone now, very sad.

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold



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