Is sway control needed with electronic sway?
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Topic: Is sway control needed with electronic sway?
Posted By: rcase13
Subject: Is sway control needed with electronic sway?
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 4:05pm
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So we have the RPOD 190 that weights about 3000lbs. loaded it weights about 3500lbs at the most. The truck is an 2012 F150 SuperCrew with 6.5' bed. It has the 3.73 gears with 4x4 and electronic rear locker. This configuration gives me 9100lb tow rating. The truck also has built in brake controller and has Fords electronic sway control.
My questions since I am so far under the tow rating and payload rating I should not need WDH. But what about sway? Is the electronics good enough if I keep tongue weight at 12% or more? I can buy the BlueOX if necessary but don't want to shell out $700 if I don't have to.
And finally I have no experience with the built in brake controller. Is it decent enough to use or should I use my old but trusty Prodigy P3?
Thanks so much for everyone's help. I know these are newbie questions but the truck is new to me and I am not familiar with Fords electronic sway or built in brake controller.
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2012 Ford F150 5.0l
157"WB 4x4 ELD
2021 R-Pod 190
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Replies:
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 4:22pm
I wouldn’t count on the truck’s electronic sway control since that doesn’t directly control the trailer, only differentially applies the truck brakes to try to mitigate sway effects on the TV. But you’re probably fine at 12% tongue weight. If you want you can add a simple friction antisway bar for around $60.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 4:32pm
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When you have a tow vehicle that weighs about twice what the trailer weighs, AND your trailer has proper weight distribution, (tongue weight ) then the likelihood of severe and uncontrollable sway is almost non-existent, and becomes even less of a problem when you load up a lot of heavy items (water jugs, generator, fuel, coolers, cases of drinking water, spare tires, camping supplies, etc in the bed of the truck, AHEAD of the rear axle.
With your setup you can load the trailer with even more tongue weight than normal, (2 house batteries and 2 full propane tanks will help) up to around 20% and your trailer will absolutely behave itself.
This is 'towing authority' and my rig has it also.
Enjoy!
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r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!
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Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 4:52pm
The integrated brake controls many truck/SUV builders install as an option are excellent in my opinion. Ford has led that effort for years. GM was behind on the effort. There is no need to add another brake controller IMHO. Plus 1 to OG the sway control which my Chevy also has, has nothing to do with trailer sway, it's a traction control system for the truck. Maybe your owners manual might help explain. I'm towing my Pod with an integrated brake control and a 60 buck friction sway bar. Works fine. No issues 5 years.
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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
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Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 5:46pm
+2 to OG and sway control. My old '94 F-150 had no fancy stuff, just a stick shift V-8 5.0 litre with 322,000 miles and no issues. Now this newer fancy '17 F-150 I purchased used in 2019 has traction control yet I still feel good using the same Curt anti-sway ($ 50) bar on this new vehicle that I also used when the TV was '08 Explorer or '13 Explorer over the last 8 years. To date now 36,000 + miles on our 10 year old 177 and except for a few times, have almost always towed with the Curt anti-sway bar link. Not 1 issue ever. Do you need it for your setup? The above posters make that rather clear. Do I? With at least 11% or more tongue weight probably not, just a habit I have had and for me not a big deal to hook up, takes maybe 20 seconds. Just have to remember to loosen it before backing up, otherwise I will have an issue.
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God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
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Posted By: rcase13
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 6:39pm
If anyone is interested this is the text from the manual. So this system is as others have said a reactive system. I have decided to load the trailer and truck properly using the advice from above. If the system comes on at all I will know I need to either redistribute load and/or look into away control. I will give the built in brake controller a chance.
Trailer sway control
Your vehicle is equipped with trailer sway control. When properly
equipped, trailer sway control will use the vehicle’s AdvanceTrac-
with
RSC-
system to detect and help reduce trailer sway by applying brake
force at individual wheels and, if necessary, by reducing engine power.
WARNING: Trailer sway control does not prevent a trailer from
swaying, it mitigates the sway from increasing once it has
occurred. If you are experiencing trailer sway it is likely that the trailer
is improperly loaded for the correct tongue weight or the speed of the
vehicle and trailer is too high. Pull the vehicle-trailer over to a safe
location to check the trailer weight distribution and tongue load and
reduce speed to a safe level while towing. If trailer sway is
experienced, SLOW DOWN.
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2012 Ford F150 5.0l
157"WB 4x4 ELD
2021 R-Pod 190
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Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 12:49pm
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We have almost the same truck (a 2015 with a lower-numerical rear diff) and find the WDH is needed to deal with headlight aiming. You can mitigate for that with airbags or super springs or sumo spring, or "something". The WDH deals with it.
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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
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Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 2:18pm
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My Taco is also equipped with sway control. As stated, pertains mostly to the truck (and it's load), not what's being towed. It's a whole different physic's thing that Offered could better explain. Mine is not electric, as electric deals with operating the brakes, which I don't consider a good sway control method. It will get you out of trouble, as it arises (which it will at some point).
I removed my WDH, as I learned more about and found with proper packing the Taco sat well without. I did add a sway control hitch, which I will say all should have. Let's just say for most cases you don't require the sway control. You just lower the pressure and travel. Yet when you hit that 'cross-wind danger' area, you can walk back there and tighten up. Insurance well worth having, IMHO.
Last run on the way back (last week) we crossed a gap in Virginia that Semi's were on their side up against the guard-rail. Ya, there will come a time you may really wish you had it.
MHO is yes you do still require.
Safe Travels!
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways
2017 Tacoma
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build
2004 F150 My Overlander
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Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 2:20pm
G2, I do recall you said you were using a WDH. I have a 14 Chevy Z71 and don't get a drop enough to effect headlights. Surprised a Ford drops that much. I do have 380 lbs on tongue weight.
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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
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Posted By: rcase13
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 2:30pm
I wish they made sway control without WDH that you could backup with. I ran the friction sway control in past. Not for me.
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2012 Ford F150 5.0l
157"WB 4x4 ELD
2021 R-Pod 190
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Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by rcase13
I wish they made sway control without WDH that you could backup with. I ran the friction sway control in past. Not for me. |
They do... It's called friction... What was the issue I wonder? I loved it! Adjusted according to the need/requirement.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways
2017 Tacoma
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build
2004 F150 My Overlander
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Posted By: rcase13
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 2:49pm
The friction I had, had to be removed before backing up. I forgot once and bent it. Also it squeaked like crazy. I hated the damn thing. LOL
Most importantly my wife hated it.
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2012 Ford F150 5.0l
157"WB 4x4 ELD
2021 R-Pod 190
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Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 3:09pm
Biggest issue I have seen with them is over tightening. I back up short distances with mine, if its making noise it is to tight.
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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
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Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 3:28pm
Electronic sway control such as that from Hayes or Tuson provides the safety without affecting the ability to back up. There is nothing to bend or squeak. It works (certain caveats for GM vehicles IIRC) with vehicle integrated brake controllers also.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...
http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS
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Posted By: rcase13
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 3:36pm
Nice thanks, I never heard of these before. That Hayes is plug and play and less then $300.
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2012 Ford F150 5.0l
157"WB 4x4 ELD
2021 R-Pod 190
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Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 3:53pm
So I think it’s not that complicated what sway control on the TV does. There are inertial sensors in the truck that look for yaw and if they see it they apply rear braking on the wheel opposite the direction the rear of the truck is heading which will tend to pull the truck back in line. That will tend to straighten out the whole rig but it’s not as positive as applying braking action to the trailer wheels like the Hayes system will do, which should immediately get the trailer back behind you where it’s supposed to be. Not sure why the Ford anti sway system doesn’t activate the trailer brakes via the integrated brake controller but it doesn’t sound like it does. At least I couldn’t find anything suggesting it did.
In any case, if you don’t like friction antisway bars then StephenH’s suggestion to go with Hayes or another electronic system is a good one. Even if Ford’s system activated the trailer brakes it can never be as good as a system that is monitoring trailer yaw which is going to be more severe and sooner than TV yaw in a sway event.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2021 at 4:29pm
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I have the Hayes system and it has worked great for me. Was heading to Fort Myers Beach with wind gusts of about 40-45 and you could feel the brakes go on as soon as the gust hit and the trailer snapped back straight. My Escape has the built in anti sway.....haven't noticed it working but you can definitely feel when the Hayes is activated. I think you can send the Hayes unit to the factory to have programmed for the GM vehicles.
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Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 9:58am
Originally posted by mcarter
G2, I do recall you said you were using a WDH. I have a 14 Chevy Z71 and don't get a drop enough to effect headlights. Surprised a Ford drops that much. I do have 380 lbs on tongue weight. |
I don't know that it is that much. The one time we towed without it happened to be when we were evacuating for the CZU fire complex. It was 3AM when we left, so I decided to not bother with the WDH. It towed just fine, and the truck did not appear to have much (or any) squat. However, as I drove down the road, I noticed the headlights were above where they ought to be. I don't think it takes much to affect headlight aim, so it was a lesson learned.
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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
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Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2021 at 11:24am
Thanks G2, I'm going to monitor mine more closely.
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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
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Posted By: rcase13
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2021 at 9:35am
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So went out on our maiden voyage. Towed about 4 hours. There was some windy points along the route. No issues at all with towing without WDH or sway control. The wind or passing semis had no effect.
I have no issue purchasing the right equipment. I will continue to monitor the situation but setting up the tongue weight properly and making sure the height is perfect at the hitch seems to have been all that was needed. I also measured the sag in back and did not notice anything. It lowered the back by only an inch or two. But we didn't tow at night so the jury is still out on the headlight issue.
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2012 Ford F150 5.0l
157"WB 4x4 ELD
2021 R-Pod 190
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Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2021 at 10:27am
Even with a wdh you still end up a little lower at the rear axle. The purpose of a wdh is to bring the front axle weight back up to what it was without the trailer, not to make the tow vehicle level. Sounds like you will be fine as is.
Note that the 190 like my 179 has the fresh water tank forward and the gray tank aft. So if you carry water like I do that water weight shifts rearward as you use it. That creates a change in tongue weight of about 3% of trailer weight, which is quite a lot, making the trailer more prone to sway on the return trip than the outbound trip. Just something to keep in mind.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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