towing advice -- are we crazy?
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Topic: towing advice -- are we crazy?
Posted By: dsj123
Subject: towing advice -- are we crazy?
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 1:06pm
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All -- We're aiming to buy a R-Pod 192 which grosses 4900 lbs. We are also planning on getting a '18 Highlander with a 5000 lb towing capacity. Although we're (nearly) flatlanders here in Minnesota, we've heard stories about engines being overworked due to the wind resistance of an RV trailer, and we do plan to eventually do some camping in more mountainous areas. Are we crazy? Looking for your wisdom; thanks much! David & Barb Twin Cities
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Replies:
Posted By: Pod_Geek
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 1:21pm
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You mean a 202? ------------- 2020.5 R-Pod 195 Hood River 2018 RAM 2500 6.4L |
Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 2:19pm
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Again, use the 80% rule: 5000 pound towing capacity means look for a trailer UNDER 4000 pounds GVW (80% of 5000) This will help keep you safe and secure as you tow. ------------- r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten! |
Posted By: dsj123
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 2:44pm
| Nope -- the weird singular one with the murphy bed! |
Posted By: dsj123
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 2:46pm
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Thanks much. However, in order not to have to buy a moose of a vehicle to tow more (our biggest current vehicle is an Outback:), we were thinking of going without water in the tanks to get it closer to net weight, 3,449 lbs. Is that doable? David
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Posted By: Colt
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 3:13pm
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You need to weigh, or have the particular trailer weighed.
There is no reason at all you can't tow well under the max gross weight. The UVW for my 180 is pretty close, yours likely is, too. But then, I added another ~175 lbs of "stuff" even trying to be careful of adding weight. Aero drag is controlled with speed. Prolly no reason to tow over 60 MPH. My OEM tires had a 65 MPH speed rating. ------------- John '16 R-Pod 180 |
Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 3:31pm
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I have a 195, I think the 192 is slightly heavier than the 195. I tow with a frontier rated at 6100 - 6300 pounds. I would tow a 192 with my truck, but I know it would be just enough truck to do the job. I don't really think your 5,000 pound capacity is up to the job. ------------- 2017.5 Rp-172 2020 R-pod 195 2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl I'll be rpodding |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 3:34pm
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You're not crazy, but personally you're taking some chances that could be life changing. A 5000 lb vehicle is not adequate for a 4900 lb tow. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: dsj123
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 3:36pm
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Thanks very much, all -- sounds like we should start shopping for a bigger vehicle! David
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Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 3:38pm
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The amount of drag you are pulling is greatly increased as your speed increases. Think of it as a huge sail or parachute that is dragging you down and making your engine work that much harder as you travel down the road. Have to agree with mjlrpod above. Now if you just plan to stay around home in Minnesota and Wisconsin and not travel too far, you can probably do it but for longer hauls and highway speeds, personally I would look for a 'stouter' TV with more towing capacity. ------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 3:54pm
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I have learned one thing in the last week, the manufacturer claimed weight and tongue weight are not reliable. We just received our 196 and I was shocked that the tongue weight was much higher than what was listed on the FR site. They list the hitch weight at 361 pounds, mine was over 600 pounds empty! With the trailer loaded I am now at 840lbs on the hitch! I used the local CAT scales, so I believe they should be accurate.
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Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 4:26pm
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Yep. It’s crazy pushing things that much. I tow my 179 with my Highlander and wouldn’t consider towing anything heavier. The tow ratings on vehicles are set assuming nothing but a skinny driver in the TV. Totally unrealistic, as is the unloaded weight of the trailer especially if you want to carry gear and water to boon dock or drycamp.. On top of that you have to ask yourself how close to the manufacturer’s limit you want to operate. We have folks once a week or more frequently here wanting to tow too heavy a trailer with too light a TV.
If it’s fuel economy towing that worries you about a heavier vehicle don’t. It will be about the same, around 12-14 mpg regardless of what you tow with. That’s because as jato says air drag on the trailer dominates the power requirement, and of course that doesn’t change when you change TV’s. Colonel Podder, what was your trailer weight? You might be able to reduce tongue weight by moving some stuff aft as long as you keep the tongue weight above around 11% of total trailer weight. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Pod_Geek
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 5:38pm
Odd. Our 195 loaded for camping (no water, though) weighed in at 420 lbs tongue weight. What the heck?
------------- 2020.5 R-Pod 195 Hood River 2018 RAM 2500 6.4L |
Posted By: Pod_Geek
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 5:41pm
So what are you loading it with to get 1500 lbs over the dry weight? Our 195 loaded for camping weighs in at 4200 lbs, with a dry weight of about 3600 lbs (more than your 192). ------------- 2020.5 R-Pod 195 Hood River 2018 RAM 2500 6.4L |
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2021 at 6:51pm
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Must be my math? Weight with trailer loaded for camping, no water, clothes or food. Truck only; Steer axle - 2840 Drive axle - 2720 Total - 5560 Truck and loaded pod; Steer axle - 2660 Drive axle - 3560 Trailer axle - 3580 Total - 9800 Weights below from the day of purchase. Full propane tank, one battery. Truck only; Steer axle - 2880 Drive axle - 2700 Total - 5580 Truck and empty pod; Steer axle - 2720 Drive axle - 3380 Trailer axle - 3480 Total - 9580
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Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 1:59am
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So the trailer weight is 9800-5560=4240.
The tongue weight is 2660+3560-5560=660. Tongue weight is at 15.6% of trailer weight. That’s all fine I think assuming it’s within your truck’s limits. On date of purchase the trailer weighed 4000 and the tongue 520, for a 13% tongue weight. So you added 240 lbs of which 140 went on the tongue. Typical, FR’s listed tongue weights are optimistic to say the least. I do notice that your truck weighs 20 lbs less (essentially the same weight within the limits of accuracy of the scales) then when you picked up your rpod so presumably you haven’t loaded it for camping yet. I’d suggest you do that and also add water in the water heater heater and fresh water tank (if you plan on dry camping), clothes and food and weigh again to get a “final” set of numbers. After that you should be good to go unless you make some major changes. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: David and Danette
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 3:03am
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You can not always go by a vehicles tow rating. We had a 2010 Jeep Liberty with a tow rating of 5,000 pounds and it struggled to tow our r-pod 171. The Jeep Liberty had 210 hp engine my thinking the engineers rated the vehicle not to be damaged towing 5,000 pounds but it did it at a slow pace and the engine at high rpm's. You can use the tow rating as a guide but I think the horsepower and torque of a engine is more important.
------------- 2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018- 2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019) 2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014) Middle Tn 2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab |
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 7:57am
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Thank you Offgrid, I feel a little better about it now. Two hundred pounds less than I thought. My truck has a 1000 pound hitch weight max.
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Posted By: Pod_Geek
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 9:00am
I still find it odd that our 195 weighs in at 4180 loaded for camping (basically the same as your 196) and the tongue weight is 420. 660 vs 420 is a big difference.
------------- 2020.5 R-Pod 195 Hood River 2018 RAM 2500 6.4L |
Posted By: Pod People
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 9:08am
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I would mention to the original poster that not only is the engine power important, but also the transmission and brakes should be considered. We tried to tow our 173 with a Chevy Astro van (5000# tow capacity) and quickly demolished the transmission. Pods are not big, but the weight is there as well as frontal area and must be accounted for in selecting a proper tow vehicle Vann ------------- Vann & Laura 2015 RPod 179 https://postimg.cc/0zwKrfB9"> 
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Posted By: john in idaho
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 10:16am
| A short story..... Before We got the 2015 179, we had a tent trailer. We used to pull it with a Jeep Grand Cherokee v8 and it seemed to be doing fine. WE had pulled various horse trailers all over the NW for years with a pickup so we had towing experience. One fall my brother and I went on a camping trip, and instead of the Jeep, we used his 1/2ton Dodge pickup with about the same engine because we were taking some fishing stuff. I could not believe the difference a wider longer slightly heavier tow vehicle made. I found I could steer the rig down the road , not herd it along. Still drove 60-62 as with the Jeep. And got better gas mileage - not much but slightly better. I went pickup shopping when we got home. |
Posted By: poston
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 5:23pm
As offgrid pointed out, you're only at 660 lbs on the hitch. Like I did when I first looked at my numbers, you probably looked at 840 lbs on the rear axle and assumed it was 840 more on the hitch, without taking into account that 180 was taken off the front axle. Our 180 fully loaded for camping is 3500 lbs (we tend to the minimalist side, coming from tent camping), with a tongue weight of 480. That puts me at 70% of the tow rating of my Xterra and it feels comfortable. ------------- -- Jim Virginia City, Nevada 2016 R-pod 180 2015 Nissan Xterra Pro-4X |
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 6:19pm
I agree, it is very odd. Especially considering that the 195 & 196 are pretty much the same trailer. My Sister and Brother-in-law also purchased a 196, so we will see how theirs comes out weight wise in a few weeks.
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Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 6:30pm
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My 179’s tongue weight is right around 500 fully loaded. So the 660 with the bigger heavier trailer doesn’t surprise me at all. 420 is more concerning frankly, that sounds too low to me as you need to keep a bare minimum of 10% of total trailer weight on the tongue to avoid sway, preferably more. Bottom line us you need a pretty capable tow vehicle for the larger Rpods. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Toyanvil
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2021 at 8:19pm
| You will need a bigger TV, I have a 178 R Pod 3200 lbs. ready to camp and live in Bakersfield, my Tacoma V6 pulls it okay over the grapevine and up to Huntington Lake. I added a bigger trans cooler and I would not tow anything bigger with my truck. The Tacoma's don't like wind, pulling my 3200 lbs. R Pod it feels good at 55 to 60 mph @ 10 mpg, pulling my 3300 lbs. car trailer it feels good up to 65 to 70 mph @ 14 mpg. |
Posted By: Pod_Geek
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 9:12am
I wonder if the 660 included a full FW tank, two batteries, and/or dual propane tanks. We typically have a lot of stuff in the pass-through but run with no water in the tanks. Maybe it's all the food in the fridge and pantry (both behind the axle) that reduces our tongue weight. The longbed RAM 1/2 ton has had zero issues with the 195 in 10,000 miles of towing, including two rather memorable runs west on I-70 in Kansas with 40-50 mph crosswind gusts and crazy semi drivers going 85. Of course as I've mentioned previously in this forum I keep the speed under 65 at almost all times and usually closer to 55-60 in such conditions. It was great getting about 5-6 MPG, by the way...or maybe it was GPM. Had to be careful about anticipating fuel stops west of Salina.
------------- 2020.5 R-Pod 195 Hood River 2018 RAM 2500 6.4L |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 10:10am
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Colonel Podder said no water, he had only battery originally and a tongue weight of 520, not sure what he has now. In any event with 1000 lbs hitch capacity he doesn’t have to worry about tongue weight, higher tongue weight keeps the trailer axle light and reduces sway risk.
In your case with 420 on the hitch and 4200 lbs trailer weight, you’re right at the recommended 10% minimum. There has been a report or two of sway on rpods at around that. For sure weight aft will reduce tongue weight, you might want to move some heavy stuff forward a bit if your TV can handle the tongue weight. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Pod_Geek
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 10:19am
Getting close to RAM's anemic max payload and have had no sway in 10,000 miles, as I mentioned. What driving conditions at a given tongue weight are most conducive to sway in your view? Also, there's a guy over in the FR forum who says that max payload numbers can safely be ignored. He's gotten a bit of pushback. Any opinion on that? ------------- 2020.5 R-Pod 195 Hood River 2018 RAM 2500 6.4L |
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 10:41am
The 660 was with one battery, and one full propane tank. No water in tanks. I do have the pass-through storage full, chairs, table, rug, plastic leveling and stabilization pieces, small tool box, electrical cords and protector, hoses, griddle, and probably a few other items as well. Have not yet added any food to the frig or pantry.
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Posted By: Pod_Geek
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 10:48am
Yeah, we have a lot of stuff like that in the pass-through as well. Maybe it's the 10 cases of beer in the pantry that are causing the low tongue weight. Seriously, I need to weigh the loaded rig again next time out...probably in May. ------------- 2020.5 R-Pod 195 Hood River 2018 RAM 2500 6.4L |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2021 at 2:10pm
If you need to unload some beer let me know...  ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |