I need HELP!!!: Hard start capacitor

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Hard start capacitor

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Forum Name: I need HELP!!!
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=14327
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Topic: Hard start capacitor

Posted By: pedwards2932
Subject: Hard start capacitor
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2021 at 9:44am

Anyone try this:

https://www.amazon.com/SPP6-Capacitor-Increase-Starting-Torque/dp/B0002YTLFE - Amazon.com: SUPCO SPP6 Relay/Capacitor Hard Start Kit with 500% Increase Starting Torque: Home Improvement

The soft start kit is about $300. This seems like it is working for people that reviewed it?

Replies:

Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2021 at 6:41pm

Don't waste your money on the SUPCO SPP6. I tried one of those and sure enough, it made the AC harder to start. What works (but is much more expensive) is the MicroAir EasyStart.

The Hard Start is to provide additional punch to get a compressor going. It does nothing to cut the inrush current and make it possible to run the AC on a smaller generator. OTOH, the MicroAir EasyStart does reduce the inrush current needed to get the compressor spinning. It does not start with a jerk from stand-still to full speed. It ramps up instead with a much gentler start. Look at the MicroAir site for more details.

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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2021 at 7:00pm

Ok just wondering if it worked it seemed that some folks had it work but you never know with google reviews. Thanks for letting me know....I can save the 10 bucks. I had seen the MicroAir ($299) so it is more expensive but if the other one doesn't work it isn't worth trying.

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2021 at 8:22pm

+1 to StephenH. This is a case where you get what you pay for.

You don’t need to spend the $300 for an Easystart if you have a sufficiently large generator, but then there is the weight and cost of that approach. It’s a matter of deciding what you want to do. Pros and cons either way.

Also consider that most campgrounds won’t let you run a generator at night so neither approach fully solves the problem we have in the East of dealing with hot humid summer nights while boondocking.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2021 at 8:49am

Weight for me is an issue. I did some more research and there are several folks making soft start but it seems the best one is the MicroAir and it is UL listed. I did find one that was about $115 but it really isn't a soft start....it uses a hard start capacitor with a delay on fan start so it reduces the amperage.....I don't suspect the fan is much of a draw compared to the compressor so I doubt it would work either.

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2021 at 8:15pm

If the fan isn’t on then an inverter generator like the Honda 2k goes into eco mode (low idle) which makes it even harder to start the compressor because the generator needs to spin up to full rpm. You can of course deselect eco mode but then you’re creating more noise and burning more fuel than needed while the a/c is cycled off. The Easystart solves that problem.

If weight is a key issue for you and you really need your generator to run the a/c then Microair is the way to go. Consider the price to be justified based on value provided rather than based on the labor and materials in the device itself.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 11:32am

Saw this at Lowes

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-3000-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Generator/1001091600 - CRAFTSMAN 3000-Watt Gasoline Portable Generator in the Inverter Generators department at Lowes.com

It is $850 weight right at 60 lbs which is fairly light for the output. Only down side I saw was 4.5 hour run time but that was as 1/2 load....run wattage is 2300 so I am guessing that half load is 1150 watt.

Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 11:43am

This one weighs a bit more, but I know the Generac brand. It is electric start also, which is quite handy. I would consider it instead. I opted for a dual-fuel Firman generator. That way, I don't need to carry flamable gasoline separately.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Generac-IQ3500-3500-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Generator/1000615731 - www.lowes.com/pd/Generac-IQ3500-3500-Watt-Gasoline-Portable-Generator/1000615731

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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 11:49am

I think the weight on that woulld get me. 109 lbs in and out of the car would be a bit much. 60lbs I could handle. Plus I am close to maxed out with my trailer and TV. I would suspect if the RV craze continues there will be more 30 amp inverters available. I know Craftsman doesn't build anything just puts the name on it so I am not sure who builds it.

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2021 at 7:05pm

Weight is your friend when it comes to a generator’s capability to start the a/c. It’s the rotating mass of the engine that provides the stored energy to get the compressor going. A lightweight generator with a high electrical power rating won’t have the rotating mass required so it’s rating probably just specsmanship on the part of the manufacturer. If you want the lowest weight while still getting reliable starts get an Easystart and a Honda 2.2k or similar rated generator. That combo is going to be very hard to beat.

+1 to StephenH’s recommendation to get or convert a generator to run on propane. You already have propane on board so not carrying gasoline is a weight savings in itself, not to mention the reduction in complexity. I converted my Honda to propane when I bought it and have never run it on anything else since. Much cleaner burning and no gummed up carb.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2021 at 8:04am

Now for the bad news. If you live in the US, this generator is not available. For some reason, the Craftsman 3000i is only sold in Canada. I find this strange, as the Craftsman generator is manufactured by Generac, one of the most recognized American generator manufacturers.

Looks like the Craftsman is a Generac and they now sell it at Lowes

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2021 at 8:08am

Also looks like you can get the Generac version on Amazon for $750.

https://www.amazon.com/Generac-GP3000i-Super-Inverter-Generator/dp/B079KRHJ5C/ref=as_li_ss_tl?dchild=1&keywords=Generac+GP3000i&qid=1600143093&sr=8-2&linkCode=ll1&tag=chainjourn-20&linkId=b0f2b199d4ef942a4db8ad1b0c0fcef2&language=en_US - Amazon.com : Generac 7129 GP3000i Inverter Generator : Garden & Outdoor

Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2021 at 9:43am

At those prices, you can buy a honda, that is 46 pounds, and will probably last 15 years or more. It's up to you.

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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2021 at 10:28am

Honda is 1800 running watts 2200 starting watts and is $1100 add the soft start at $300? Generac 2300 running watts and 3000 starting watts. I am sure the Honda is one of the best generators but the recommendation I was getting was for a Generac which the Craftsman is and the Generac is less expensive.

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2021 at 6:52pm

The Craftsman might or might not start the a/c. It could well have lower surge current capability than the Honda. We had a member a few months ago that bought a generator that had higher start and run power ratings than what you are reporting and it wouldn’t start the a/c. It’s inverter protection circuits shut down first. The peak startup power on the a/c is far above 3kw. There is no formal standard on how startup power and current are specified, so it’s up to the manufacturer and how conservative or optimistic they want to be. We know from actual use over the years what the brands like Honda and Yamaha can and can’t do.

The point is that you shouldn’t be surprised if you buy a light generator but then find you still need to get an Easystart to get reliable a/c operation. And you may not know until you try multiple starts on a hot day. Or, get an Easystart and don’t worry about it.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2021 at 7:59pm

Part of what you are saying doesn't make sense.....the Honda weighs 46 lbs so it is a

"light" generator so why or how is it that it can do better? I'd say I'd have to try it to see but there are quite a few folks that have said it would run a 13500 btu.

PowerRush™ Technology*

Provides 50% + motor starting capacity
Easily powers most RV AC units up to 13,500 BTU

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 7:04am

What doesn’t make sense? My Honda did not start the a/c prior to installation of the Easystart. It does fine with it. So what I am saying is that any very light generator, regardless of the claims of the manufacturer’s marketing group, is going be questionable without the Easystart. Go ahead and try it without the Easystart if you want to, the worst that will happen is you’ll be calling Microair if it doesn’t work. Just be sure to try multiple starts in hot weather, the refrigerant back pressure goes up at high temps and after the compressor cycles a time or two.

50% over normal operating current is nowhere near enough. The locked rotor amps (LRA) or the Dometic 13.5K is well in of 50 amps, so around 3X. You will momentarily see currents that high without the soft starter. Some generators can provide that instantaneous startup surge current, some can’t, and you can’t tell without actual testing, but weight is a good indicator because it’s the rotating mass of the generator that provides that stored energy. The energy has to come from somewhere, it’s not created out nothing. The Easystart solves the problem by ramping up the compressor slowly which reduces the startup current to around 1/3.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: pedwards2932
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 8:07am

Okay so having to use Easy Start with Honda makes sense. If I plan to use an Easy Start there are a lot of options available. I would be rolling the dice with the Generac but they do advertise it as being able to run a 13500 BTU AC and if I bought it from Amazon if it didn't work I am guessing I could send it back. The Generac does come with a 30 amp outlet not sure if that makes a difference.

Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 8:48am

Try it and see if it works. No reason to return it, just get the Easystart if it doesn’t work without it. Your downside is you won’t know for sure it’s good till you get into some hot weather. You might know right away if it doesn’t work though.

I don’t think the 30A outlet will make an significant difference, might even make it worse because it will have lower resistance which will allow the a/c to draw more current, making it more likely to trip the generator protection circuit.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 10:21am

I believe the 30 amp outlet on these gennys won't take a normal R.V. 30 amp plug. I believe you need to buy an adaptor. My 30 amp R.V. plug would not fit my Honda's 30 amp socket.

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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding