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Towing an R-Pod 171 with a Subaru Outback

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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=14097
Printed Date: 29 Apr 2024 at 5:41am
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Topic: Towing an R-Pod 171 with a Subaru Outback
Posted By: pnjbartlett
Subject: Towing an R-Pod 171 with a Subaru Outback
Date Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 9:09pm
Have a 2020 Subaru Outback Onxy XT that can tow 3500 pounds.  Looking at the R-Pod 171 and wondering if anyone is towing with this vehicle or something similar and if so how has your towing experience been.

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JB



Replies:
Posted By: JR
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2020 at 5:53am
If you end up towing anything (not just an RPod) with your Subaru Outback make sure the tail doesn't end up wagging the dog.  I don't know what the weight of the Outback is but be careful.

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Jay

179/2019


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2020 at 7:57am
I think you are asking the wrong question. Its easy to find someone somewhere on the internet that is doing something you'd like to do so you can feel good about it. Its called confirmation bias. 

What you need to do is look at the specs of the tow vehicle and trailer and realistically decide where your loading will be relative to those. So, for the 171, max trailer weight is 3252 lbs. You will very likely be near that weight with a fully loaded trailer, especially if you plan to boon dock at all (carrying a full fresh water tank and dual batteries, gear, supplies, etc). If you never plan to camp without water and electrical hookups you can subtract about 300 lbs. 

Next, look at your driver's door sticker and find the MCGVWR (the max combined gross vehicle weight rating). That is the most that Subaru allows your total rig to weigh. Take your Suby's curb weight (3884 lbs I think), add the fully loaded trailer weight, and then add a realistic estimated weight of all the passengers and gear (grills, bikes, tents, coolers, folding chairs etc etc) you plan to carry in the vehicle. 

Compare those numbers, If you are over the MCGVWR don't do it, you will be overloaded, unsafe, and open yourself to significant liability if you have an accident. If you are under, then its a personal decision about how much safety factor you want. I personally want to be at least 10% under the MCGVWR all the time.

The other spec to check is hitch weight. What is the max hitch weight on the Subaru? To mitigate against sway, the trailer needs to be balanced so at the very minimum you have 10% of trailer weight on the hitch under all load conditions. 11-12% is preferable. So that is pretty much right at 350 lbs for a fully loaded 171. Ignore Forest River's dangerously low published hitch weight. 

Check the towing section of you manual to see if Subaru allows you to use a weight distribution hitch. That doesn't give you more hitch capacity but it does significantly improve ride and handling of the rig. 



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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 4:56pm
I actually bought my first pod, a 172, thinking I could pull it with my outback, rated at 3000 pouds max. I never actually made a trip, as I saw so many comments against it. I bought instead a Frontier that can pull 6000 pounds. Best decision I ever made. I am a " heavy" packer. I bring two of everything I want to bring, and one of things I don't even want. I would have surely run into a serious problem with the outback. All things of course are relative. If you tow the 171 to a local camp ground, within 1 - 2 hours, say twice a year, on pretty flat land, you might be ok. But if you want to be whatever you want, and go where ever you want, you might be disappointed.

Oh, btw, I think subaru doesn't recommend WDH, and has a low tongue weight, about 200 I believe. An Outback would be good for a small pop up though.


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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2020 at 6:45pm
100% agreement with JR and mjlrpod above.  Our first sighting of an r-pod was back in October 2010 at Fort Wilkens SP in Copper Harbor, Michigan.  What we saw was a Suby outback pulling a 152.  We liked the pod so much we ordered a 177 3 months later, and we still own the same one today.  Anyway, even pulling a 152 (which is quite a bit lighter) it was still probably a stretch for the outback to pull that unit.

-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: pnjbartlett
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2020 at 4:10pm
I understand and appreciate where you all are coming from. What makes things interesting is the 2020 Outback XT's use the same power train as the New Subaru Accents that have a 5000lb tow rating. So the real question is even though the 2020 Outback Onyx XT has a max tow rating of 3500lbs is it going to struggle towing an R-Pod 171 with a UVW of 2500lb? so I would say loaded with our gear about 3000lbs. On the Accent forums people just seem to say there vehicles pull campers heavier than what we are looking into buying with ease. Thoughts?

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JB


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2020 at 5:50pm
Lots of manufacturers put the same drivetrain in a variety of different vehicles. Many folks think horsepower is the important factor in a vehicle's tow ability but its not. The deuce and a half truck which was key to us winning WWII could handle enormous loads but only had about 100 hp. It just went slow up hills. But it was massively built. 

The Ascent weighs about 4500 lbs and has a 114 inch wheelbase. The Outback weighs 3900 lbs and has a 108 inch wheelbase. Those are big differences.  

The internet is great for finding folks who do all kinds of things.  But the real question is what does the manufacturer say, what will your trailer, hitch, and tow vehicle end up weighing when loaded (Hint: its always more than you think) and, assuming you are within specs, how close to the limits are you comfortable with? 








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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: pnjbartlett
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2020 at 2:26pm
We have an update.... So we purchased a 2021 Rpod 171 UVW of 2600 lb loaded maybe 2900 lbs. Our 2020 Subaru Outback Onxy XT did pretty darn well. You can tell the camper was back there, but there was plenty of power for acceleration and going up some of the Indiana Hills the rpm's would hit about 3k but for the most part they stayed around 1800 - 2000 rpm's. We got about 14mpg round trip with 25mph wind gusts on the way back home. We didn't use a WDH as Subaru doesn't recommend them but may consider adding a anti sway bar if we are going to do cross country driving.

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JB


Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2020 at 2:54pm
Sounds like you have made your decision to tow with the subaru. I hope everything works out great, although, I think it's a matter of time. Good luck 

-------------
2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2020 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by pnjbartlett

We have an update.... So we purchased a 2021 Rpod 171 UVW of 2600 lb loaded maybe 2900 lbs. Our 2020 Subaru Outback Onxy XT did pretty darn well. You can tell the camper was back there, but there was plenty of power for acceleration and going up some of the Indiana Hills the rpm's would hit about 3k but for the most part they stayed around 1800 - 2000 rpm's. We got about 14mpg round trip with 25mph wind gusts on the way back home. We didn't use a WDH as Subaru doesn't recommend them but may consider adding a anti sway bar if we are going to do cross country driving.
A better option than a sway bar is an electronic sway control such as that from Hayes (Sway-Master) or Tuson (Sway Control) or Lippert (Sway Command). I have the Hayes and it is plug-and-play for installation. Also, there is no worries about backing with it.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2020 at 4:15pm
Please don't make your final determination because you have decided that you have enough horsepower to haul the trailer down the road. That was never in any serious doubt.

 Its all about weight. Go weigh the trailer, trailer tongue, tow vehicle and total combined weight as loaded for travel and compare those numbers to your specs. If you are under on all of them and you feel comfortable, fine. If you are over on any of them then you are not legal so please don't do it. 

If you do a search of my posts I explain how to do that at a public scale. Either free at you local transfer station or a modest fee and an hour or two and you will know for sure. Its easy and well worth the effort. 


-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Pod People
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2020 at 9:44pm
Another aspect that hasn't been mentioned are the other important parts of the tow vehicle--the brakes and the transmission.
We initially towed our 173 with a Chevy Astro van. It had the power, but the transmission was not up to the task. After we replaced the transmission. we bought a used tow vehicle that will do the job.
Horsepower is only that-power, it doesn't always move you down the road, up the hills or stop you going down the hills.
You need a transmission cooler and serious brakes at a minimum. the rear axle ratio is also important to keep the rpm's down and the  transmission working long term.
Be careful-your tail will wag the dog easier than you know at this point in your towing career.
Vann


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Vann & Laura 2015 RPod 179
https://postimg.cc/0zwKrfB9">


Posted By: pnjbartlett
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 6:18am
Completely agree with what you are saying. There is more to it than just horsepower. After doing extensive research on the Subaru Onyx XT before buying the 171, Subaru at least did put a transmission cooler on those XT models. I really think Subaru did try to improve its towing ability from prior years and models. I just wish Subaru would have had prewired for brake controller and 7pin rather than just the 4pin. We ended up using the Curt Bluetooth brake controller. So far so good on that front.

-------------
JB


Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 8:06am
I've camped in a several places that have dirt roads. Actually many do. You have front wheel drive, and several hundred pounds pushing down the rear, which pushes up the front. Even a small up hill climb is going to be a challenge. I've been in one or two places that I was a little nervous about the inclined dirt roads, and I have 4 wheel drive if needed. We are not telling you the subby can't do it at all, but it is not up to every challenge you will meet for certain. The other thing is possible legal trouble if you were to get into an accident. People want you to realize you are using a volkswagon bug to plow your street. One or two inches of snow, ya might get by. I pulled a popup with my crosstrek for a year (1 summer). I made it, but I had some challenges. As I said, good luck in the future

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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 9:03am
No matter how you cut it, you will be borderline at best. So, weigh your fully loaded rig, check actual weights against all the specs, don't assume. I think you'll be surprised how heavy things can get. I was. 

mjlrpod, actually the old VW's did great in the snow. The light front end, flat body pan and rear weight over the drive wheels allowed the old bugs to ride up over big drifts without getting stuck.  If a huge drift stopped them all you had to do was back up and hit it again till you pushed through.  I had one living in Cambridge during the blizzard of '78 and I was driving all over Boston in it 'till the police stopped me to tell me they had shut down the city and I had to go home and park it. Confused


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 10:41am
Reminds me of the '63 Corvair that was my first car. I could go through some snow with that.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 11:54am
Corvair and VW were pretty much the same configuration, so that's not surprising. They also both had the same sometimes not so nice handling issues. I had a friend with a Corsa Turbo convertible, fun car but it liked to swap which end was in front once in awhile. So did my bug. Star

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 3:56pm
My first car was a 68 bug. It went ok in the snow, but the lack of heat and needing to continuously scrape the INSIDE of the windshield made it not so fun. I must admit skipping it across a small pond was even more fun. The skid plate underneath made for a great ride over the water. Rev it up, get going like heck, then WEEEEEE 

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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 4:00pm
I had it start "dancing" on my once. It scared me thoroughly. Chevy dropped the swing axle in '65, but by then it was too late to save the Corvair. It wasn't until later that I read Unsafe At Any Speed by Ralph Nader and understood what had happened.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 4:51pm
I had a 1965 Corvair Monza, I loved that car but Ralph Nader killed it

-------------
If you want something done right, do it yourself.
2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd.




Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by mjlrpod

My first car was a 68 bug. It went ok in the snow, but the lack of heat and needing to continuously scrape the INSIDE of the windshield made it not so fun. I must admit skipping it across a small pond was even more fun. The skid plate underneath made for a great ride over the water. Rev it up, get going like heck, then WEEEEEE 

Yep, the VW heater was ineffectual, I used to scrape the inside windshield too. It was close to your face so at least it was easy to reach.   I had  56, 59, 68, and 72 bugs. With studded snow tires I didn't have any problems in them with snow as long as I could see where I was going. Never tried the pond skimming, that does sound like fun. LOL

If you think the bugs were bad the buses were worse. I drove a 40HP 60 bus across on the trans Canada highway from Vancouver in January. Got as far as Winnipeg and gave up, headed south. That was an early Westphalia camper, my first RV. Wish I had that now, it would be worth a small fortune. Boy was it cold, and slow. 

But those things were hard to stop and easy to fix so for a poor student they were great. I recall clutch disks costing a whole six bucks and taking 30 minutes to change, start to finish. The good old days when cars with easy to fix and we were crazy.... 

I personally kinda think the whole unsafe at any speed thing was a bit over the top. Lots of cars were dangerous back then besides the Corvair and the VW swing axle designs. In some ways I liked 'ol Ralph but sometimes I think he went overboard a bit. 


-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 9:03pm
Even though the design changed to eliminate the problem of the swing axle, it was too late to save the Corvair. It had other problems. I had the automatic with the little lever on the dash for shifting. It had reverse, neutral, drive, and low. There was no park except for the parking brake. I learned early to turn the wheels into the curb if there was one and I was on a hill as the parking brake was also not that effective. I also was driving home and it was a freezing rain. I got of the more main road onto a road that was not so well maintained and started fishtailing. I tried to correct and it kept getting worse. I ended up doing one or two spins (I don't remember how many), and went off the side of the road into a snowbank. It was like I parallel parked half-way between two telephone poles. When I went into the snow, it knocked the throttle connection loose so I could not move. My dad came and figured out the problem so we reconnected the linkage and we got the Corvair moving again.

It was also slow to get moving. The worse was that the engine leaked oil, so I had to keep a window open so I could let the smog out. The defroster did sort of work as did the heat, but the smoke coming in with the heat was not very nice. It could not have been good to breathe either.

I got a brand-new Pinto to replace it. I am just glad I did not get a Vega.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by StephenH



I got a brand-new Pinto to replace it. I am just glad I did not get a Vega.

Talk about out of the frying pan into the (literal) fire. 'Ol Ralph went after the Pinto even more than he did the Corvair. I recall trying to fix the brakes on my girl friend's Pinto, ended up replacing everything in the whole system and it still wouldn't stop right. At least it didn't have an aluminum block. Or you could have bought a Gremlin. Very unfortunate name choice....

My first new car purchase was also in that timeframe, a first gen Honda Civic.  Very nice, efficient, and reliable little car. 



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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: marwayne
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 10:56pm
I had a Pinto station wagon, it was yellow like a lemon, which it was.

-------------
If you want something done right, do it yourself.
2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd.




Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 6:32am
I got a brand-new Pinto to replace it. I am just glad I did not get a Vega.
Stephen H

During my college years at Michigan State I was forced to sell my '69 Corvette as I was putting my own way through school w/o any outside help.  I replaced it with a 74 Gremlin, still remember the numbers, sold the Vette with the optional hardtop for $ 4000  and purchased the Gremlin off the lot for $ 2902 total price!  Wish I had the Vette now, worth quite a bit.

College was affordable then, 4 years set me back $ 11,000 - not bad for a 4 year degree.  Nowdays that only pays for 1/2 year.  And yes the Gremlin . . . . even though it wasn't a eye turner like the Vette, it was more dependable as I was always fussin' with the Vette.  Had the Gremlin for 8 years, 125,000 miles and not 1 issue the whole time.  Sold it for $ 800 so the price/year of Gremlin ownership was only $ 262.50.  Even abused the Gremlin as I would get 9 of us in that thing going to church 3 each in the front and back seats and 3 in the rear with legs hanging out with the hatch window up.  Pretty funny sight!  Should have put air shocks on as it would hang pretty low in the back. 



-------------
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 9:26am
The first "new" car I ever got was a Vega GT. The GT had the super-sized radiator, and did not have the problems that happened with the teeny radiator versions. We kept that car about 5 years, when I got a Honda Accord. The Vega was a good starter car, but the Accord was better.

Neither were suitable for towing.


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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2020 at 11:20am
After we had an accident (on our honeymoon) in the Pinto, I drove a Falcon for a while and then bought a Honda Civic CVCC wagon. That was a good car, but it did have some problems as well. Then a Dodge Omni followed by a Chevy Lumina APV. When we came back from Hawaii we got an (out of) Focus. Then a 2009 Escape, a 2016 Escape. After the incident on ice, we got the Frontier I now drive.


-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS



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