Yukon TV & rp-196
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=14067
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Topic: Yukon TV & rp-196
Posted By: Colonel Podder
Subject: Yukon TV & rp-196
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 8:23am
Hello Everyone!
Another newbie here with another newbie towing question. My wife and I have a 196 on order, and with delivery expected around December/January I have some time to research and make decisions on some different topics around camping. We are both very excited about our new chapter in life and look forward to the many adventures. We look forward to meeting the many like minded folks in the RV/Camper community! To start, we plan to do mostly local travel, and then expand our travels as experience accumulates and time goes by. So, we would like to get as much right from the start that we can.
My question is as follows; I have a 2017 Yukon with a tow rating of 6500lbs. What I am trying to decide is if I need to have a weight distribution/sway control type hitch? I don't like complexity that is not needed, but I do care about safety. From my research I have found some information that says my 2017 Yukon has an anti-sway feature. It will detect and automatically apply the trailer brakes when sway is detected. My research has also shown that I have a 1000lb tongue weight rating. My brake controller is a Redarc Tow-pro Elite. So with this information, is a WD/sway control hitch needed for safety reasons?
This isn't a decision about saving $500 on a hitch, it is more about keeping things simple and making the journey easier. I would love to hear thoughts from anyone on this subject.
Thank you!
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Replies:
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 9:24am
We use a WHD and are very happy to have it. It is a Fastway e2 round bar. The head stays in the receiver all camping season so there is no messing with that end of the hitch except to put it in in the spring and take it out in the winter. Hooking up the trailer, once you go through the simple set up process, takes just a few minutes. The tongue jack raises and lowers to trailer to position the torsion bars. Though our TV has plenty of towing capacity, the WHD smoothes out the ride and stabilizes the trailer. It is much more comfortable driving with the WHD. We got it when we bought our 172 and used it with a Dakota originally. When we replaced the TV and trailer, the WHD was moved to the new rig.
There are a number of good WHD's on the market and you will hear a variety of preferences from the members of this board. Personally, I have no experience with other brands, so I can't comment on which is better than the others. I share your feelings about keeping things simple and the Fastway e2 meets that criterion. [Disclaimer - I have no financial or other interest in Fastway.]
------------- Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost
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Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 10:15am
First, let's separate the antisway from the weight distribution function. While some hitches perform both at once, they aren't the same at all.
When you hang a trailer on your hitch the tow vehicle acts like a teeter totter so the load on the front axle goes down. That weight has to go somewhere so the load on the rear axle goes up by the tongue weight of the trailer PLUS the amount of weight that has been lifter off the front axle. Since the front axle does all the steering and has the best brakes on your rig, that isn't a good thing. A wdh counteracts that and when its set up right it puts the weight on the front axle back where it was before hanging the trailer on there. That will without doubt make things "safer", but it is not required. It will also help improve your ride and handling, not sure how noticeable that would be with your Yukon.
On to antisway. In my opinion you want belt and suspenders for that. First, the belt. Load the trailer properly, which means at least 10% tongue weight, preferably 12%, or more, under all load conditions. That means if you plan on boon docking, with a load of water in any one tank, all your gear and supplies, etc.
Then, the suspenders. Some type of antisway system for the trailer. Unless your Yukon antisway controls your trailer brakes directly (a few systems do now) then its not really keeping the trailer behind the tow vehicle, only limiting sway on the tow vehicle itself. The mechanical antisway systems restrict pivoting around the ball so do work to keep the trailer from wanting to be in front of you. These can be purchased either as part of the wdh or as completely separate systems. If you want simplicity and decide to get a wdh then you probably want one with integrated sway control so its easier to connect and disconnect.
The other approach is an aftermarket electronic antisway trailer brake controller that creates differential braking action to bring the trailer back in line if it starts to sway. That requires no additional time once its been set up during installation. So if you decide you don't want the hassle of a wdh you might still want to get one of those for sway.
------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 11:08am
I'm with lostagain on this one. Our F-150 (11,000+ lb towing capacity) does not "need" a WDH, but it makes a huge difference when we're towing. The first thing we notice is that the "bounce" is far more dampened when the WDH is connected. The second thing we notice is that the WDH brings the headlights down to their proper level.
It does not take very long to hook up the WDH either. Only takes a couple of minutes. We're much happier with it connected than not.
We also have a Fastway E2 roundbar. We didn't pick it, the RV dealer we bought the Rpod from recommended it, and installed it as part of our purchase.
------------- bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
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Posted By: ash
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 12:58pm
Congratulation Colonel Podder on your new R Pod!
I just bought the same trailer (2021 R Pod 196) a couple of months ago from a RV dealership in Las Vegas, NV. I live in Colorado, and I had to fly out to Las Vegas, rent a 2020 GMC Yukon XL, and tow my R Pod home. It was quite an adventure. 
I thought that I did not need a WDH or brake controller because this trailer was so light (only 3,500lbs), so I only put a 2 inch hitch ball in my travel backpack. Well, I was wrong. Good thing, the dealership made me purchase a wireless (Bluetooth) brake controller before they would allow me to leave the RV parking lot (required by NV state law for any trailer above 3,000lbs).
The minute my wife and I left the RV dealership and enter the highway, the trailer started to sway and bounce once we went over 50mph. Since the trailer was so light, I did not even notice that it was swaying until I saw it in my rear view mirrors. Luckily, there was no traffic, and I was able to control the sway of the trailer with my brake controller. From that moment on, instead of going 80mph (NV highway speed limit), we only did 50mph all the way from Las Vegas, NV to Denver, CO. In some areas, we even had to slow down to 40-45mph due to high winds. A 13 hour one-way road trip took us 21 hours to complete. 
Once I got home, I installed my Equalizer WDH (from my old camper) on the new camper, took it for a spin at 85-90mph, and noticed NO sway. I have done 4 camping trips so far, passing cars, campers, and semi-trucks at 75-80mph, and no sway at all (riding super smooth).
The moral of the story: This trailer is super light, but it is also pretty tall. Tall and light are the perfect combination for disaster when it comes down to speed and wind. I would recommend you buy a good WDH system with sway control. It will save you from headaches and troubles down the road.
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Posted By: Pod_Geek
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by ash
...passing cars, campers, and semi-trucks at 75-80mph... |
------------- 2020.5 R-Pod 195 Hood River
2018 RAM 2500 6.4L
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Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 1:30pm
You are pulling your trailer at 90 MPH?!? Seriously?
------------- bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
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Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 1:59pm
Not really a good idea to go that fast. Not only is the chance of disaster increased, but the increased wind resistance will mean you will be getting horrible gas mileage. It is also good to check and see if there is a towing speed limit where you will be towing. We had an accident in Wyoming. The speed limit on I80 was posted at 80 mph. Turns out, I was doing the legal towing speed limit of 60 mph, so I was not cited. It was ice with a crosswind and was written up as unavoidable instead of me doing something stupid.
In addition, I don't think the tires are rated for that fast a speed. You don't want a blowout at high speed (or any speed for that matter), but higher speeds increase that possibility.
------------- StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...
http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS
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Posted By: ash
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 2:54pm
Hey guys,
I did 85-90mph during my test only when I first installed my Equalizer WDH. 
However, some of our highways' speed limit are still 75mph, so going 75-80mph is no problem here (especially with such a light trailer). Even with the full load of water, I get no problem passing people going up the mountain. I love my WDH & sway control system. 
------------- 2021 R Pod 196
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Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 2:58pm
80-90 mph??? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
------------- Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost
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Posted By: Pod_Geek
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by ash
...so going 75-80mph is no problem here... |
I think the consensus among trailer folks is that that's about 10-15 MPH too fast. I keep it at 65 even on, for example, I-70 from Denver east into KS unless doing a quick pass on a two-lane.
I'll leave it to the really experienced people on here to comment further if they wish.
------------- 2020.5 R-Pod 195 Hood River
2018 RAM 2500 6.4L
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Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by ash
The moral of the story: This trailer is super light, but it is also pretty tall. Tall and light are the perfect combination for disaster when it comes down to speed and wind. I would recommend you buy a good WDH system with sway control. It will save you from headaches and troubles down the road.
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The moral of the story (other than don't tow at high speeds) is likely not that the trailer was light and tall but that empty as delivered the tongue weight is too light, right about 10% of trailer weight. That is too light. Add some weight forward to have a stable trailer, don't depend on sway control to save you.
And, a wdh is not required to address that issue, clearly the very light tongue weight is not a problem for the Yukon. Sway control is what is required. Two different things. If you want to combine them OK, but let's not confuse the two.
------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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Posted By: ash
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by StephenH
I don't think the tires are rated for that fast a speed. |
Westlake Trailer Tire Specs: - Fits: 15" x 6" rims
- Tire size: ST235/75R15
- Section width: 9.3"
- Outer diameter: 28.9"
- Tire capacity:
- Load range: D
- Ply rating: 8
- Maximum load: 2,910 lbs at 65 psi
- Maximum speed: 75 mph (speed rating L)
------------- 2021 R Pod 196
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Posted By: ash
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by offgrid
"a wdh is not required to address that issue, clearly the very light tongue weight is not a problem for the Yukon. Sway control is what is required. Two different things. If you want to combine them OK, but let's not confuse the two."
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Because this trailer is only a single axle, it did not matter if the trailer was loaded or not. The whole set up (TV and Trailer) will bounce hard when you go over dips and cracks on the road. The WDH system actually helps make the ride more comfortable by slowing down all the up and down movements.
I used to have to two axle travel trailer, and I never really had any issue with the whole ride bouncing up and down. With my old trailer, I only used the WDH to help with the weight distribution from the back axle of my truck to the front axle (just so that the back of my truck would not sag).
------------- 2021 R Pod 196
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Posted By: Pod_Geek
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by ash
Westlake Trailer Tire Specs... |
Same tires I have! About 10k miles and going strong.
------------- 2020.5 R-Pod 195 Hood River
2018 RAM 2500 6.4L
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Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 4:35pm
A wdh won't really slow down the up and down movements significantly. If the wdh had dampers it would but it doesn't, just steel bars that act as springs. In fact if you ride over say concrete highway or bridge expansion joints at a speed that matches the resonance frequency of your wdh springs combined with the mass of your trailer/tow vehicle the wdh will make the rig much more susceptible to bouncing. I've had that happen several times, on one bridge in particular with bad concrete expansion joints, the oscilations got pretty bad but stopped when I slowed down about 10 mph because the inputs not longer matched up with the rig resonance frequency. There were no oscillations on the same bridge without the wdh.
A wdh does add a small amount of load to the trailer axle (about 100 lbs or thereabouts) so there is a minor improvement in bounce from that but it's not much. Weight loaded forward in the trailer is what will bring sway under control. I did a survey a couple of years ago and there were several reported cases of sway beginning at just about 10% tongue weight. Do add some weight on your tongue or forward part of the trailer if you haven't already.
Think of the wdh as bringing the load on the front axle back to where it was without the trailer, returning proper steering and braking control. It's purpose is not to bring the rear of the tow vehicle up so it looks more level, that is a secondary benefit.
------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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Posted By: ash
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by offgrid
"A wdh won't really slow down the up and down movements significantly. If the wdh had dampers it would but it doesn't, just steel bars that act as springs."
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I don't know about your WDH system, but mine actually helps slow down or minimize that bouncing movement between the TV and trailer. My WDH acts as a support arm to keep the pivoting point between the TV and trailer up or leveled.
------------- 2021 R Pod 196
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Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 5:47pm
All wdh's are springs. So they increase stiffness against up and down motion at that joint. That will change the resonance frequency which is the natural frequency of up and down oscillation in the rig at that joint. Resonance frequency is proportional to the square root of k divided by m where k is the spring constant and m is the mass. So a stiffer spring which has a higher spring constant k will result in a higher resonance frequency.
To get the bouncing increasing rather that dying out you need the frequency of the inputs (say from a series of expansion joints) to match up with the resonance frequency. We've all probably experienced that in one form or another. If for example you get a loud buzzing noise from something in your vehicle when you run your engine at one particular rpm that's resonance.
If the higher resonance frequency from adding the wdh goes above the frequency of the inputs from the expansion joints then the stiffer spring will reduce bounce. If the stiffer wdh moves the resonance frequency up to more closely match the input frequency from the joints then it will make the bouncing worse. Its kinda the luck of the draw whether it helps or makes it worse.
That's a long winded engineering way of saying we can both be right. 
Back to the original discussion which was about sway. Look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2fkOVHAC8Q - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2fkOVHAC8Q
There is no change in the weight of the trailer and there is no wdh, but the sway is gone when there weight is moved forward and terrible when its in the rear. That's why its important to get adequate weight on the tongue, 10% is marginal at best.
------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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Posted By: Colonel Podder
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 6:17pm
Thanks to everyone for the feedback and information provided, I have gained a good bit of knowledge. While I don't anticipate pulling a trailer at speeds in excess of 70mph, I do appreciate knowing that I will be 20mph, or more below where the TV and trailer are still stable. Having the additional margin is comforting. And while I don't like complexity, but in order to have a large safety margin, I believe the WDH/sway control is something I will do. Thanks again! This looks like a great place to hang out when not on an adventure.
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