Manufacturer mistake led to plumbing leak
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Topic: Manufacturer mistake led to plumbing leak
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Subject: Manufacturer mistake led to plumbing leak
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 3:31pm
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Hi! This summer I purchased a new to me 2018 r-pod 180. So far, it's been an interesting experience to say the least. We've been plagued by loose trim pieces and things simply breaking since our first trip. I've been very disappointed in the build quality thus far. My parents have had less problems in 20 years of ownership with their Airstream than I have had with the r-pod in just a few months. The first sign we had a leak was this summer when we woke up to carpenter ants in the trailer. Knowing the ants are attracted to water, I searched the trailer front to back for a leak and was unable to find anything. The second sign was the pump running every 10 minutes or so without us using water. Because of this I would shut off the pump and depressurize the lines when not using water. This past weekend we stayed at a private campground with excellent water pressure. The morning after hooking up the trailer I noticed a steady stream of water dripping from the rear right corner of the trailer, just under the storage compartment. I discovered that the storage compartment was full of water, as was the bathroom floor. I removed the panel covering the pex line in the bathroom and water started shooting up into the air. When forest river manufactured our r-pod, someone carelessly stapled the trim right into the water line. It wasn't until I hooked up the trailer to the campgrounds high pressure water system that enough water leaked for me to notice it. I removed the vinyl flooring and dried as much of the water as I could. So far the wood doesn't seem to be soft and I strategically made small cuts into the vinyl in the bathroom and found dry wood. It appears that the damage is mostly contained to this corner of the trailer. My concern is that since the water was leaking from below the trailer, water obviously made its way below the subfloor. At this point, I'm trying to determine the best course of action to prevent more damage. Should I be cutting into the floor to try and dry out underneath the subfloor? Should I make a cut so I can get into the space beneath the wardrobe and work to dry that out? Any thoughts or advice is appreciated! I really want to straighten out this little r-pod because on the rare trip we haven't had any problem we really love the trailer. Thanks!    ------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Replies:
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 3:49pm
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Ugh. Yet another example of worse than poor workmanship. Sorry you're having this problem. rPods are not Airstreams for sure. Did you document the manufacturing defect? While FR's warranty language will exclude it due to time and because you are not the original owner, since it is clearly due to negligence on the part of FR, and was a hidden defect, I would call FR customer service and request they repair the problem. There is nothing to lose after all. Regarding next steps, I would suggest you get a wood moisture meter like this: https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-MMD4E-Moisture-High-Medium-Low/dp/B00275F5O2/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=wood+moister+meter&qid=1601326078&sr=8-5 - https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-MMD4E-Moisture-High-Medium-Low/dp/B00275F5O2/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=wood+moister+meter&qid=1601326078&sr=8-5 and probe from under the trailer to see how wet the lower plywood layer is. With a leak as bad as you describe I can't imagine that it isn't wet under there. Note that water can travel a long way horizontally especially in plywood. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 4:35pm
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Thanks for your reply! I wasn't expecting Airstream build quality due to the cost differential but as you said, this is an extreme example of negligence. Trim falling off is one thing but a leak that could potentially destroy my trailer is a whole other matter.
I've kept all the parts and the problem is obvious from the single rusty staple in the trim as well as the corresponding rusty hole on the pex line. I'm going to take more pictures today. I'm definitely taking your advice and will reach out to Forest River. I'll start with customer service and use social media channels if need be to try and get someone's attention. I'm also going to buy the moisture sensor so I can see what I'm dealing with. It's just so frustrating because I'm sure this pipe has been leaking since the day the trailer left the factory. I thoroughly looked over the trailer before purchasing it but would not have seen the leak without lifting up the floor. Thanks again ------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 6:33pm
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The good news I guess is that it would only leak when there is pressure in the water lines, which is not that often. Do let us know what you find out and if FR does the right thing by you. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 6:40pm
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So you've outlined one problem. Your parent's Airstream didn't have one problem in 20 years? I know lots of people, OK a few people, that have owned Airstreams, and let me assure you, they have problems. I'm not diminishing the problem you've had, and it sure sounds like a doozy. We have been very happy with our RP-179. It's not perfect, but We did save close to $40,000 over an equivalent-function Airstream. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 8:48pm
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Will do!
I'm really hoping they'll help me out. It's me and my girlfriend's first trailer and we're both in our 20s and can't afford to spend thousands on repairs. I just want to move beyond this so I can spend more time in the pod-mods section of the forum. ------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2020 at 9:28pm
My parents Airstream has of course had things go wrong but it's generally been due to the wear and tear of several cross country trips. They've never had any leaks or other serious problems. Maybe they've been lucky but I brought it up because it's my point of reference. My r-Pod was barely used by the original owner and has only been used for a few short trips by me. Every time we use the trailer the moulding on the top of the slide pops off. Glued on trim pieces have started to come off. There's a small leak in the slide out below the kitchen sink. Last trip, we were delayed because the line connected to the propane tank began to leak. I didn't mention these problems in my original post because to be honest, none of them are a big deal to quickly fix. I was happy with my r-Pod because the structure seemed sound and I love the features / floor plan. Now I'm faced with a wet and moldy subfloor, and based on what I've seen elsewhere on the forums, potential structural issues if the wood rots. This on a trailer not even 3 years old that has yet to leave New England. For a trailer that retails new over 20K, I definitely expect better. We'll see, if Forest River does the right thing and helps me out I'll have the opportunity to be happy with mine as well. ------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 9:49am
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Unfortunately, the RV industry is not unlike the automotive industry before Japanese and German competition came along. The basic designs are alright, but the fit and finish is inadequate. Some travel trailers are assembled reasonably well, then there are those that really seem to be lemons. For the lower end of the market, maintenance is a constant battle as you find assembly errors and flimsy materials. It never ends. The most dangerous problem for trailer longevity is water intrusion, which, sadly, you are fighting. All you can do is track down the leaks and fix them youself or through an RV repair shop. Things like trim falling off and such are maintenance nuisances that won't go away. Just try to keep on top of it before it becomes more serious. Just yesterday, I spent the morning pushing the dicor back into it's proper position under the corner trim to ensure that it stays water tight. It's a maintenance issue that I know I'll have to monitor closely. While I was at it, I found 3 small penetrations of the outer skin which were caused by overdriven fasteners right next to the edge trim. A dab of clear epoxy sealed them, but that is one more thing that has to be monitored. Many have commented that every time you go on a trip you subject that spring mounted box with living quarters inside to a magnitude 7 or 8 earthquake. It vibrates, shakes, and tears things apart as it bounces down the road. In the effort to keep the trailer light and keep manufacturing costs down, flimsy materials are used and they don't resist the earthquake well. It inevitably leads to failures that you're going to have to fix. This board is a tremendous resource to help you with learning how to maintain your trailer.
------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 11:26am
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I like the comparison to the auto industry. It's so frustrating the manufacturers can get away with it. In our case, we paid a little over 12k for our lightly used r-Pod. I understand it's not a lot to pay for a trailer but nonetheless, it's still a significant outlay of cash.
In my opinion, it's inexcusable that Forest River is having workers staple trim to the wall right above pex without having anything to protect the line. One slight misfire and now I'm in this situation. And the leak was slow, but has clearly been going on for a long time. If I hadn't forgotten my pressure regulator, who knows how long it would be before I found the leak and how much damage would be done. As you said about the trim, I expect to have to work on things like that. It doesn't even really bother me. I understand compromises must be made to hit weight and cost targets. The one thing I was really petrified of dealing with is water damage, and here I am. On a lighter note, I'm glad the r-Pod has an active forum. I've definitely learned a lot / gotta great ideas from all the fellow pod owners! ------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2020 at 6:37pm
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Just to give everyone an update, I did speak with Forest River. I left a message and someone actually got back to me. They were really nice and asked me to send them pictures and said they're going to try and help me out. ------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2020 at 1:13pm
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So this is what I received.
"After further review this is not something that we would cover. As you are a second owner and we cannot deem this as a manufacturing issue because it is noted in our owner’s manual (page 53) that this must be checked on a monthly basis by customer" I'm speechless... I can see denying me because I'm the second owner but saying I should've inspected it? They stapled into a water line hidden behind trim. So a friendly PSA to all fellow r-Pod owners to inspect all your water lines to see if they stapled into them. You should be doing this monthly. ------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2020 at 3:43pm
Maybe to be REALLY sure we should all do daily inspections just to be sure a gnome didn’t sneak in during the night with a staple gun  ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2020 at 4:09pm
You really can never be too careful. Rouge staplers can strike when you least expect it. ------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2020 at 5:09pm
My apology for the use of the term “gnome” in my previous post. I did not intend to suggest anything derogatory toward the vertically challenged. Illicit staple damage could just as easily be perpetrated by fictional tall humanoids such as Slendernan. Please accept my apology for my inappropriate behavior.  ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2020 at 7:41pm
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Come on! Everyone knows it is gremlins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1xqrdtJs8w ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2020 at 7:47pm
 But does Forest River cover damage by gremlins? Only if I was the original owner lol------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 6:36am
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Nope, gremlins would not be covered, even for the original owner. FR would certainly argue that allowing gremlins, gnomes, or Slenderman access to your trailer was misuse on your part. unless of course you could show that they were already in the trailer when it left the factory....  EVENTS DISCHARGING WARRANTOR FROM OBLIGATION UNDER THIS WARRANTY: Misuse or neglect, including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance, unauthorized alteration, accident, and improper loading, commercial use or leasing of the recreational vehicle, shall discharge Warrantor from any obligation under this Warranty When hunting for gremlins in your rpod you need to have a plan in place in case you actually find one, The proven method, albeit messy, is to be on shore power, microwave empty with the door open, and some bug spray in hand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu6NGUDoi30 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu6NGUDoi30
------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 7:17am
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So this is what I received today:
We do have some panels that are removable but some water lines can’t be seen which is where a pressure test should be done which the manual states before every trip as well as monthly. I have reviewed all the information and gotten with... on this case. We will not participate in warranty coverage as it is the responsibility of the original owner to check the water lines which was not done in this case. Please let me know if I can help with anything else." ------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Posted By: SC for Huskers
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 11:33am
Well, There you go, another case of "The Dog Did It" Hum.
------------- Happy Traveling, Tom 2017 172pod 2011 F150 STX |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 12:18pm
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Okay, How is one supposed to do a pressure test? I have not seen instructions on that in any of the literature or forums I have read. If we are expected to do this, it should be taught how to do so by Forest River.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 12:29pm
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For FR to reasonably claim a hidden plumbing leak was discoverable in a pressure test a normal human needs first know there is a test that needs to be performed and also needs to be able to follow the test instructions and identify that there is a leak. None of that is in the manual that I could find.
Here is the manual from their website for rpod models 2015 and newer. I don't see anything about a monthly pressure test, only a vague reference that you should suspect a leak if the pump "is running" when the faucets are off. That is certainly not a scheduled maintenance inspection and requires you to be dry camping and to interpret what "is running" means. For how long and how often? My pump turns on every once in awhile for a short time either from a slightly leaky pump check valve or a slowly dripping faucet. I doubt it would run more for a tiny pinhole leak from a staple. Many folks always camp with city water and never use their water pumps. Then under monthly maintenance it says "check hoses, fittings, and connections for leaks and wear". That clearly reads like a visual inspection, nothing about running the pump for a pressure test. https://forestriverinc.help/#/forestriverrv/guide/2021/1241-r-pod/browse/topic/GUID-EA88DDB6-DF80-437C-BEFA-19AA98C38B0B - https://forestriverinc.help/#/forestriverrv/guide/2021/1241-r-pod/browse/topic/GUID-EA88DDB6-DF80-437C-BEFA-19AA98C38B0B ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 12:29pm
Exactly! Were any of my fellow r-Pod owners instructed to do monthly pressure tests and taught how to do it? They're making things up as they go. ------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 1:16pm
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I did a bit of looking, and it seems that we would need to take it to a service place to have the testing done. The connector that is needed is either out of stock at the major retailers. If it is available, it is in the $85 range for a simple plug with a deep enough end to hold the check valve open. Look up JR Products 04-62275 and you will see what I mean.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 1:47pm
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Thanks for doing that research. At this point I'm going to keep pushing it and make as many people aware as possible. It would be one thing if they were denying me because I'm not the original owner etc... If that was the reason, I would have just fixed the PEX and moved on with my life. But they're saying they're denying it because of a procedure all of us R-pod owners are supposed to be doing every trip that apparantly no one knows about. People need to see this so they know what customer service they can expect when spending thousands on a Forest River product. ------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 3:04pm
Where in the manual does FR specify that? ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 4:50pm
+1 Also looked in my manual from 2011 found NOTHING. ------------- God's pod '11 model 177 '17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake "...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free." |
Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 8:22pm
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Another Forest River failure....and so many here defend Forest River while I lay it on the line: Forest River customer service sucks. I found this out about a week into the ownership of my r-pod.
------------- r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten! |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 9:26pm
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I don't disagree. That staple likely was in the line firm enough to plug the hole when it was pressure tested at the factory. I would contact them back and ask where in any instructions that they have provided to the owners that it states that the owner is responsible to have the water system pressure tested. The manual entry quoted says nothing about pressure testing. I would pursue this a little farther if you have the time and inclination. You could also contact the previous owner and negotiate something since he sold you a trailer that was supposed to not have any flaws.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 8:48am
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I agree, this should be pursued with FR if you have the stamina for it. They are painting themselves in a corner by claiming that their customers should be doing monthly plumbing pressure tests. No reasonable person would interpret their manual that way. If they then revert back to denying you because you are not the original purchaser then they are not demonstrating a good faith effort to resolve what is obviously a latent defect that has been there since manufacture of their unit. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: sawyernlsn44
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 9:36am
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I completely agree with everyone and am absolutely going to pursue this further. Because if they're really going to tell me we should all be doing a pressure test before every trip, then they absolutely have to specify that in the manual and provide instructions. I'm going to make sure I get this out there. If anything to at least make people aware that if they're not doing a pressure test every trip, as I was told, Forest River can deny their warranty. I've already contacted the BBB and my local news channel's consumer advocacy department. I've also posted it all over social media. If anyone has other ideas please let me know. Thanks again for everyone's responses! ------------- 2018 r-pod 180 2017 Volvo XC90 |
Posted By: Dirt Sifter
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 10:17am
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How can we check and inspect when FR can not give us a schematic for the placement of water or power lines? I don't want to see all those when living in the TT, but when they're covered we need to know where they are if we are responsible for checking. Especially for circumstances like yours sawyernisn44. I really appreciate your attitude and approach to this problem. Good luck.
------------- Greg n Deb 2020 195 HRE '07 Tundra 5.7L., '17 Tacoma 3.5L. Both with tow packages 1 Puggle, 1 Chihuahua support staff |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 10:20am
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Depending on your state of residence you may have access to consumer protections that extend beyond the letter of FR's warranty document. You might want to check into that. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |