Been shopping for a new TV.

Finally found one that has my 48" water fording requirement (still working on Pod outrigger option) and enough reserve electrical power for DW's 12 KW hair dryer!

This will do it, I think!

https://nikolamotor.com/badger - https://nikolamotor.com/badger

Originally posted by Leo B Fred do you have a placed figured out for the rod holder?

Imagine the bull drum we could pull out of the surf with that thing!! 

Originally posted by StephenH Unfortunately, it sounds like vaporware to me. Plus, the fuel cell price was given at $90,000. Given the taxes and fees on that and it would be almost the price I paid for our house.

But...how many 15KW portable generators do you know of that can go 0-60 in 2.9 seconds?!!

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=HY&location=24073 - https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/hydrogen_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=HY&location=24073

If you check the "include non-retail" locations, there is one in Graniteville, SC which may be closer. Otherwise, it will be quite a while before any hydrogen infrastructure is in place. Given the energy needs to produce hydrogen, it won't be economically feasible any time soon and likely would never really be economically feasible. Like so many of the "green" technologies, the reality is that they end up being worse for the environment than the "dirty" fossil fuels that are supposed to be so bad.

http://www.mb-soft.com/public2/hydrogen.html - http://www.mb-soft.com/public2/hydrogen.html

Hydrogen is awful. It will never happen. At least one can hope not.  The overall efficiency of an H2 vehicle is less than half of an ev. And 95% of industrial H2 comes from reforming natural gas. its getting funded via lobbying by the fossil fuel industry, for obvious reasons. 

But tell me what you mean by  "Like so many of the "green" technologies, the reality is that they end up being worse for the environment than the "dirty" fossil fuels that are supposed to be so bad."?  Which other ones? Let's be specific. That kind of generic statement appears to be an oversimplification with political overtones.

Battery powered vehicles also have their environmental issues due to the production of the batteries and the required rare earths that have to be mined, the source of the energy to produce the electricity, etc.  As usual the devil is in the details.  

Alternative forms of energy storage and its motive use need to be explored, but there is no panacea that will replace the ICE.  Each has its unanticipated consequences.  The important thing is that we honestly and accurately compare the relative benefits and costs of each.  Unfortunately, the proponents of any given form of motive energy tout the benefits of what they like and often ignore the drawbacks.

Corn ethanol is certainly highly debateable, most studies show modest net positive GHG emissions relative to gasoline (about 20-40% reduction). Sugar cane ethanol is much better, more in the range of 70-80%. I'm interested in seeing what the ecological footprint methodology suggests but the link was broken. 

Yes, I was making an over-simplification in my statement about green technologies. It was already pointed out about hydrogen problems. That was one I had in mind. It sounds good that you only get water vapor from the tailpipe, but it is the process of making hydrogen available in sufficient quantities for practical use that is a problem. Windmills sound good if one looks at taking advantage of "free" wind, but what goes into a windmill and the impact of building and operating them is not so environmentally benign. Solar sounds good and I certainly support further development of that as it has already come a long way. However, it is still not a viable substitute for vehicles. One still needs adequate generating capacity that is not impacted by cloudy days or lack of wind. I'm in favor of developing newer nuclear technologies that are not as subject to the safety issues Fukushima Daiichi, 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, or similar reactors. We need them to consume the byproducts of fission instead of removing and then trying to find a way to store them for thousands of years. Fusion would be great if the scientists can ever get to the point where the energy output exceeds the energy input needed to get a reaction going.

Right now, there is no viable substitute for ICE for transportation. I can't see doing the travel we have done with a battery operated tow vehicle. It is possible to tow with an electric vehicle, but I don't see it having the range needed for us to travel to visit our daughters and grandchildren without needing to allow one or two additional days just for charging stops. Meanwhile, that electricity has to come from somewhere. It does not magically appear.

I hope a viable alternative to fossil fuels can be discovered. I just don't think we are there yet. That is not political, just realistic.

I will be GLAD to see the federal and state governments step in and tax the EVs on a per mile basis to even out the costs for using our roads. Right now most EVs are using our roads for free and that needs to change. The motorfuel taxing system needs to be applied fairly and evenly across the board, even to EVs. The technology is there to accomplish this.

Some taxing entities want to raise the motorfuel taxes to make up for all the lost revenue with efficient petroleum powered vehicles, and electric vehicles, and as a result of so many Americans not driving as much as they did pre-covid.

 

This will unfairly burden the petroleum powered vehicles, while allowing EVs to travel 'under the radar'...and this needs to change. 

Is that silly or what? Well...maybe it is....cuz it's designed to put money in the government wallet, but maybe it isnt so silly when you think about all the rain runoff and the expensive infrastructure built to handle it. 

But my primary concern is that the roads, bridges, tunnels, gutters, intersection controls, etc etc are generally paid for (to one extent or another, directly or indirectly) thru motorfuel taxes. 

EV owners dont pay those when they plug in to the home EV charger or pull the 'rope starter'...I mean click 'START' on the app, and head over to grandma's house or uptown to the nice trendy bistro where they can pat each other on the back for doing their fair share of reducing carbon footprints or whatever.

But they sure dont mind driving on roads and highways and streets that are being paid for by the 'ICE' vehicles they seem to abhor...some of them do, anyway.

I'm not being political either, but fair is fair. Time to figure this out...and trust me, they WILL.

Offgrid, You make a valid point about viability of alternatives to ICE powered vehicles. In some circumstances such as short distances, battery operated vehicles may be perfectly suitable. However, for long-haul towing like we have done, I don't see it as viable yet. That may change some day. However, charging will have to be made more friendly to those towing. The way most of them I have seen are set up, they are around the perimeter of a parking lot. One would need to unhitch and drive over for a charge, then re-hitch in order to get back on the road. That is impractical. One can't pull in hitched without blocking other charging stations or parking spaces. I can pull into a gas pump while hitched up with no problems.

This is a UK site, but it does point some of these things out. https://www.practicalcaravan.com/advice/switched-on-towing-electric-tow-cars - https://www.practicalcaravan.com/advice/switched-on-towing-electric-tow-cars

A Diesel-electric hybrid might be practical if the Diesel is being used to generate electricity for the motive force like in train engines with batteries for short distance use. If the Diesel (or gasoline) engine could then be run at a constant speed, it would likely simplify the emissions controls over an engine that has to control emissions over a wide range of engine speeds and loads.

So, if I eat salad for lunch everyday, I will live forever?? This is great news. I'm gonna rent me a seasonal site at the local salad bar  Heh

StephenH, I fully agree that in your case ev's are not ready. Nor in mine when I tow. But around 60% of American families have more than one vehicle, and about 1/3 have 3 or more. Not all of those families could consider one of those vehicles being an ev, but most could. That is an enormous market and would absorb the ev manufacturing capacity for years. It would also accelerate the deployment of fast chargers which would in turn improve the acceptance of ev's to more and more people. It took what maybe 50 years to build out the fuel service infrastructure we have now? 

In my case for example, there isn't any reason why I couldn't swap my Prius for an ev. I really like the idea of never stopping at a gas station (especially during Covid) and came close to swapping it for a Chevy Bolt this year ( I'm not personally considering a Tesla just 'cause). The terrible seats got me, I have a bad back. What's with GM anyway?  They make a great little car in almost every way and then cheap out on one little thing....That is supposed to be fixed for next year, we'll see. 

A diesel/electric hybrid, like a gas/electric hybrid like my Prius, is still an ICE vehicle, just a more efficient one. There is the Highlander Hybrid, which I think several members tow their rPods with, but it is only rated for 3500 lbs vs 5000 for my gasser, not sure why. 

I doubt that a Hi Hi is going to show much improvement in  fuel economy over the conventional V6 version while towing because the hp requirements are going to keep the ICE running pretty much all the time. Hybrids gain much of their efficiency by shutting off the ICE when hp requirements are low, and by regen braking. So most of the benefit comes in city driving (I get 45-50 mpg in the Prius whether I'm in town, on country roads, or on the freeway). Most hybrids also get improved efficiency by operating as Atkinson cycle engines which give them a longer expansion stroke than compression stroke at the expense of power density (which is made up for via the electric motor). I think the Hi Hi has a regular Otto cycle ICE. 

A diesel electric hybrid probably offers less improvement advantages than a gas/electric one does.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080282_diesel-hybrids-why-they-dont-make-as-much-sense-as-you-think - https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080282_diesel-hybrids-why-they-dont-make-as-much-sense-as-you-think

Even so, VW was heading that way before the infamous dieselgate scandal killed their diesel business. They even reached limited production on this 260 mpg baby. Can't tow much with it though...

https://www.thedrive.com/news/31595/for-sale-ultra-rare-2015-volkswagen-xl1-diesel-hybrid-capable-of-260-mpg - https://www.thedrive.com/news/31595/for-sale-ultra-rare-2015-volkswagen-xl1-diesel-hybrid-capable-of-260-mpg

mjlrpod, not forever but probably you'd gain a few years if it came down to a choice between a daily dose of artery putty (big mac and fries) and a daily trip to that salad bar.

On the subsidies, tax breaks, carbon offsets. etc, that happens on both sides of the aisle, lots of 'palm greasing' in politics and energy. Think about electricity generated with coal...for example...or natural gas...it would get very complex in a hurry to try to sort out all of the 'hidden' benefits and subsidies to either one.

Hybrids and 'plug-in hybrids' get lumped together but a plug-in gets some or maybe most of its energy from the grid when operated locally. A regular ol' run-of-the-mill hybrid like a Prius is still pulling up to the gas pumps once in awhile...so it's not an EV in the true sense, so I'm not referring to a Prius or other hybrids when I use the term 'EV'

I have a friend who has owned a first gen Prius since it was new and he has over 300,000 miles on it and I believe he has changed that big battery once? Not sure...I'd have to check. I think he said he typically sees 60 mpg if he cruises at about 60 mph.

Amazing....way better than my old motorcycle!

But you would not be able to tow an r-pod with it....darnit.

And you have to enter the cost of that battery in the overall cost of fuel or cost-per-mile. They aint cheap.

The average diesel powered semi truck hauling freight, about 100,000 miles per year, contributes between $8,000 and $10,000 per year (into the highway funds of the national and state coffers) JUST in motorfuel taxes. Now multiply that times all the class 8 trucks on the road...trust me that is a LOT of money that would be gone if they suddenly could replace them all with electric semi's (which will NOT happen to any large degree in our lifetime).

But suppose it could happen...would you want all of those EV semi trucks driving for 'free'...not paying their fair share to support the roads and highways they use? I'm guessing anyone's answer is 'no'...because the feds and the states have to come up with the money SOMEHOW.

As has been said once or twice...there aint no free lunch...because, sooner or later, SOMEBODY has to pay the bill.

Offgrid: Thanks for the links. I had not heard of the VW hybrid.

Then there is the advantage that an incumbent technology always has because the investment in it has been made and depreciated long since. That's where the politics comes in, are the benefits of the new technology considered valuable enough to give it a helping hand to get started?

Unlike things like smart phones which are little and cheap, energy and transportation technologies require massive investments and are very slow to change. I started working in photovoltaics in 1979 and its only the past few years that solar has become a significant energy player - 40 years. 

But absolutely, if you tow and only have one vehicle, then its not practical, yet. 

But also, roads and highways and bridges are generally built by the lowest bidder and there is often no warranty of any kind offered or required. 

Hey, my e-bike is not licensed, insured, taxed, titled, or registered, and I don't pay a penny to the state or feds to operate it on the roads and streets, but I can ride it on almost any road around here. I doubt I will take it up the entrance ramp to the interstate, but I could, if I wanted to risk life and limb...

I figured out the pure electrical cost to operate it one time...and it varies widely depending on a lot of factors, (pedal assist level, hills, winds, etc) but I got an average result one time of about 4 miles per penny...not counting maintenance, tires, tubes, etc. 

Some e-bikes do a lot better, some, not as good. Like I said, it varies. 

And this is ON topic....I use the e-bike to pull a trailer! A little Schwinn Pet Trailer...the pooch loves it!

Just found this Consumer Reports article. Looks like 18 states now have road taxes on EV's that are HIGHER than the average auto gas tax in that state, some over twice as high. And if you think that's not politically motivated, look at which states they are.

As I said, EV owners need to pay their equitable share, but it should be mileage based...and the technology is there, although some might argue it is intrusive. I get that.

My solution would be to impose a tax on tires that are installed new on EVs. Tires are a consumable. 

If a set of tires has an estimated life of say, 30,000 miles, just pay the per-mile tax based on 30,000 miles. It would be a one time fee, similar to an excise tax. 

Those who drive that kind of mileage in a year will pay it again for the next set of tires, and those who only drive, lets say, 5000 miles a year, well, they will pay a lot less, per year.

Seems fair to me.

And no, I don't agree that its fair, as long as the fossil fuel industry continues to be heavily subsidized directly and its external costs ignored.  There is an organization called ALEC that is driving much of the state EV tax legislation, I'll give you just one guess where their funding comes from. 

Any discussion of taxation will inevitably become political in nature, all tax structures benefit some individuals or corporate entities more than others, as we see in the disparity between how the various states are implementing this.  There really isn't any way to do it that will be seen as "fair" to everyone.  I'm done on this topic at this point, not because I don't feel its important, but because we are beginning to step outside the forum rules. 

The consensus that I've read is that it's felt to be too low, but tracking mileage has big issues in several respects, including that some of that mileage might not be in state. 

Clearly, they use and contribute to the wear and required maintenance, but here is no easy solution so far.