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WFCO Power Converter Smoking

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Forum Name: I need HELP!!!
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13619
Printed Date: 19 May 2024 at 2:54am
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Topic: WFCO Power Converter Smoking
Posted By: FrankTank
Subject: WFCO Power Converter Smoking
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 3:17pm
First time connecting to 30 amp power, I heard a pop and smoke was coming from the power inverter

For the last month I have been testing the camper with 15 amps and no problems.

I take out the power converter and notice two capacitors are bulging on top and there is a oily fluid all over the board probably capacitor fluid.

So I either replace the capacitors with the same rating or find a new 30 AMP WFCO converter.


Has anyone had this issue.

I had a feeling something was going with the electrical because the battery lost charger after a week of being off ( not connected to power)





Replies:
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 3:38pm
Welcome! Please give us more information to go on. What model RPod and what year? What is the model of your power center? Is it a WF-8955PEC? That is what is in our 2016 RP179./

What is the model of your power center? Is it the WFCO 8955? If so, the converter is 55A, not 30A. Why the difference? It is because of the transformer. 55A at 12V DC is less than 9A 120V AC (roughly). The circuit breaker for the converter is 15A. It would only draw maximum amperage trying to charge a very low battery. When it switches from bulk to absorption mode, the draw is much less. It is minimal when it switches to float mode.

Capacitors can go bad. I had that happen with multiple electronic items over the years. Until you can get the converter addressed, you can use an automotive battery charger to charge the battery. However, it it was dead, it may be bad and should be tested.

I have a brand-new WF-8955-MBA on hand. I had one replaced under warranty and was sent a new one. It has been sitting in the box which was opened only to let someone take pictures of it. Then it was sealed up again. I recently changed from a Pb-Acid battery to a LiFePO4 battery and needed to change the converter to the WF-8950L2 MBA and so I have the working WF-8955-MBA as a spare. I don't need two of them. I would sell it for significantly less than you could purchase one.

OTOH, is your RPod less than 2 years old? If so, you should contact WFCO as the warranty on the converter is two years. Go to https://wfcoelectronics.com/contact/ - WFCOelectronics.com and choose the option best suited for you.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: FrankTank
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 3:54pm
Wow thanks for the informative response.

I have the 2017 R-pod 179

The model number is WF-8955PEC, but I thought since the camper is rated for 30 amps I would need a 30 amp converter.  Thanks for that explanation. 

I did wire the outlet myself, I took power from a old water heater connection ( pretty sure its 120v because it's a single breaker)

Say I did wire it incorrectly 240 instead of 120v, would this be a similar outcome?

Odd thing is that I tested it on 15 amp immediately after the incident happen and everything seems to be working, then retested the 30 amp, and no pop but with the control module out you can see smoke rising from the swollen capacitors. 

What would you want for the inverter?

Located in Gainesville, Florida

Was planning on moving in this weekend as I finish fixing up my mobile home. 


Posted By: FrankTank
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 4:32pm
So that is my problem. I gave it 240 amps instead of 120. Hope I didn't destroy anything else.


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by FrankTank

I did wire the outlet myself, I took power from a old water heater connection ( pretty sure its 120v because it's a single breaker)

Say I did wire it incorrectly 240 instead of 120v, would this be a similar outcome?



If you somehow got 240Vac across those caps they would almost certainly cook off on you. Can you be a little more specific about what and how you wired things up? Do you have a voltmeter you could use to check what you are supplying to the trailer? It needs to just be straight 2 wire (line and neutral) plus ground 120Vac. 


-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 5:24pm
Likely, you did smoke the converter with 240V. The 30A outlet must be 110V. Don't bet on the water heater connection being 120V unless you actually took a meter and checked. If so, it was a wonder that you did not cause more damage to the RPod. I installed one myself for our RPod. Since I was starting from scratch, I did not have the issue of wrong wiring. Here is something I looked up about water heater wiring: https://www.thespruce.com/safely-replace-electric-water-heaters-1152637 - https://www.thespruce.com/safely-replace-electric-water-heaters-1152637

"Electric water heaters require a 240-volt dedicated circuit, which serves only the water heater and no other appliances or devices. The circuit wiring typically includes a 30-amp https://www.thespruce.com/what-are-double-pole-circuit-breakers-1152727 - double-pole breaker and 10-2 non-metallic (NM) or MC cable. At the water heater, the black circuit wire connects to the black wire lead on the water heater, and the white circuit wire connects to the white wire lead on the water heater."

If by some rare chance it is 120V, then you may have the polarity reversed. I'm not sure if that would have the same effect. As for the converter, I will send you a private message about that.


-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: FrankTank
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 7:23pm
Yes I did. Good lesson to test with a voltmeter whenever making new connections. I am good with electronics, but I make stupid mistakes sometimes. I removed the neutral leg from the 240 30 amp breaker and attached it to the panel neutral as a 120 would be. Tested with a volt meter, no issues with camper so far. 


Posted By: FrankTank
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 7:42pm

Picture for reference. 


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 6:25am
Originally posted by FrankTank

Yes I did. Good lesson to test with a voltmeter whenever making new connections. I am good with electronics, but I make stupid mistakes sometimes. I removed the neutral leg from the 240 30 amp breaker and attached it to the panel neutral as a 120 would be. Tested with a volt meter, no issues with camper so far. 

Let's hold up here a minute.  Unless the 240V 2 pole breaker was a gfci breaker it didn't have a neutral wire going to it. Neutrals are never disconnected in breakers. In gfci circuits they are routed via the breakers so the breaker can monitor the current flow through them, but still not disconnected by the breaker. Neutrals are white so you can tell what they are (unless someone wired your house improperly). Hot wires are always colored, typically black or red. Grounds are bare or green.

The two wires originally leading through your double pole 30A breaker are both hot wires. Most likely one is black and the other red.  If you measure the voltage between either one and neutral you should get 120Vac. If you measure between the two of them you should get 240Vac. That is because while they each provide 120Vac line to neutral they are 180 degrees out of phase with each other, ergo, 240V between them.  

Edit: deleted, unless you know what you're doing hire a licensed electrician for this work. 







-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 8:50am
+1 on Offgrid's instruction. A double-pole breaker may have only one switch but a single-pole breaker is usually not much wider than the switch. If it is twice as wide (takes up 2 slots), then it is a double-pole breaker whether it has one switch or two with a bracket tying them together. My dryer breaker is actually two single pole breakers tied together with a bar holding the two switches. Our house was built in 1992.

-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: FrankTank
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 9:54am
I might have explained it wrong

The wire originally going to my hot water heater has black, white and ground ( But yes the hot water heater has black, red and ground)

In my service panel the black and white were connected to the double pole breaker. I removed the lower leg and connected it to the neutral bus. I've read online people doing this in a time crunch, I understand it is temporary. 


:Line to neutral: 120V. Line to ground 120V. Neutral to ground: 0. Done!:

Was part of my test :)

Now I am glad nothing extremely bad happened.

I am curious on what the detriment of a capacitor losing its electrolytic fluid.

Those two capacitors are 200V 680 uF

I had the camper plugged in for a good hour, tested the AC for a little (2 minutes), but I am refraining from keeping the AC on for too long. 

Anyways thanks for all the advice, much appreciated!


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 10:26am
If the AC was off when you had it running 240V, it is likely that you dodged that bullet and your AC is okay. As for the capacitor losing its fluid, that is not good. The capacitor is compromised, if not blown and not functioning. It may be that some of the parts of the converter are still functioning, but whatever was on the part that uses those capacitors may not be. I'm not an electrical engineer and I don't have a schematic of the converter and what parts of the circuits do what function. I had a computer where it was not working properly. Some functions were fine, but then it would shut down unexpectedly on other functions. When I looked, it had some blown capacitors.

The safest thing is to replace the converter and chalk it up to a learning experience. If you have the capability to replace the capacitors, you may be able to restore full, reliable functionality if nothing else was damaged from the power overage. However, that is beyond my skill level. 


-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 10:58am
OK, I get what you did when you rewired now. I'd still swap out that double pole for a single pole 30A breaker though, so everything in your home panel is as it should be. 

If what you're suggesting is could you try replacing the blown caps and see if the converter board might then work, you could certainly give that a try if you want. It's not like they're expensive and it sounds like you know your way around a circuit board. Clean off the leaked fluid so you don't breathe it when you de-solder the old caps. Don't bother if the board itself has burned tracks.  The worst that can happen is you'll find out where they hid the smoke a second time.....


-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 12:43pm
The caps blew because of either way too high input voltage, meaning something else ahead of them (like a regulator) was probably damaged, or even worse, direct A/C was fed to them, meaning the rectifier is likely shorted. Two caps do NOT fail at the same time without some component ahead of them misbehaving or permanently damaged. 

A rabbit hole, in other words. And too high a chance that other expensive control boards in the camper could be damaged if things are not 100% correct at the converter output.

I would replace the entire converter module, and then if you find the time, you can always experiment with the old one, on a workbench, with an old battery and a couple of lightbulbs for testing.

If it works, hey you have a spare unit. But very likely it wont, and you will find that other components are damaged.

Offgrid, gotta hand it to ya, I would simply NEVER try to explain house wiring, circuit breakers, 120 and 240 volt connections, neutral, ground, and two hots, on a forum, where someone will promptly go and mess around in a service panel and bad things could happen. Very bad things. 

I would tell them: If you do not know EXACTLY what you are doing in there, call an electrician.

It's a bit like explaining to someone how to remove their own appendix! (in other words, if things dont go exactly right, death can occur!)

Ya's gots balls...all I can say.

Wink








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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by podwerkz

 
Offgrid, gotta hand it to ya, I would simply NEVER try to explain house wiring, circuit breakers, 120 and 240 volt connections, neutral, ground, and two hots, on a forum, where someone will promptly go and mess around in a service panel and bad things could happen. Very bad things. 

I would tell them: If you do not know EXACTLY what you are doing in there, call an electrician.

It's a bit like explaining to someone how to remove their own appendix! (in other words, if things dont go exactly right, death can occur!)

Ya's gots balls...all I can say.

Wink

Well...last time I looked they were still there, anyway. LOL

I would normally not suggest anything like that, but in this case Frank was already well into his panel, so I felt it was more important to help him be sure he was actually doing things right than worry about giving someone else fodder for hypothetical future mistakes. Might be wrong about that but that was my thinking. But your raise a very good point, so I think now that Frank has read it and has things sorted out I'll go delete that part. Certainly can't hurt....










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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: FrankTank
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 2:32pm
I will end up swapping the capacitors to have a spare board. I have done with to my Bass amp before and It was easy. Just need a desoldering iron. 

The abundance of information is a great thing about the internet, so there will always be information on DIY. 


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2017 R-POD 179


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 5:56pm
Unfortunately, it isn't always amateurs messing around that lead to these situations. I have read about people wanting a 30A RV outlet and the "professional electrician" wiring it up as a 240V outlet instead. One has to be very careful to specify that one wants a 110V RV outlet, not a 220V outlet. Then one needs to verify that it was done correctly before plugging anything in.


-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2020 at 6:59pm
Yes, good point. Even experts can make mistakes, or misunderstand things. But normally those guys (or gals) have liability insurance....if they make an error, then you get to file a claim.

And this amplifies exactly my point: Misunderstandings can certainly happen, over the phone, on the internet, and in person. 

None of this is directed to the OP and his abilities...although something happened:

Originally posted by FrankTank


I did wire the outlet myself, I took power from a old water heater connection ( pretty sure its 120v because it's a single breaker)

Say I did wire it incorrectly 240 instead of 120v, would this be a similar outcome?


When it comes to a home electrical service panel with high voltages and lots of amps just waiting and ready to do interesting things, 'pretty sure' is not what we want to hear. If not 100% sure, the voltages should be verified with a meter.

Just sayin.





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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: fishinfool
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 12:56pm
Hi StephenH,

I'm looking for a WF-8955-MBA. Do you still have one for sale?

Thanks,


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2015 182G
'90 F-150
4.9L,I6,3:08R


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2020 at 2:01pm
Sorry, it is sold. Check Amazon though. That is probably the fastest way to get a new one and if I recall correctly, the most reasonable price online.

-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS



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