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Weight Distribution hitch

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Topic: Weight Distribution hitch
Posted By: richfsi
Subject: Weight Distribution hitch
Date Posted: 29 May 2020 at 5:15pm
Greetings, just purchased a 190. I am towing with a 2019 Toyota Highlander. Looking for a recommendation for a Weight Distribution Hitch. Appreciate the help!



Replies:
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 29 May 2020 at 6:21pm
Welcome and congratulations! I hope you have many fun adventures and make many great memories with your RPod.

There are many options but three seem to be popular. A lot depends on what you are willing to spend, and how much weight you want to handle.

I used to have an Equal-i-zer 4-point sway control WD hitch. It is good, but the hitch head is quite heavy. I now have a Hensley Cub hitch which is quite effective, but very expensive. I like it, but it is a bit of overkill for the RPod. I have my reasons for the purchase, but the expense is not necessarily what most people would be willing to spend. I got it on a sale price which lessened the pain.

A second choice is the Fastway E2 hitch. It is very similar to the Equal-i-zer, but only claims 2 point sway control. It is less expensive, but also has a heavy hitch head.

A third choice is the Andersen No-Sway hitch. It is quite different in that instead of using heavy bars for weight distribution, it uses chains and urethane springs. Sway control is done at the hitch ball, which pivots in the hitch head instead of the trailer pivoting on the ball. A friction material lines the shaft of the ball. It is much lighter in weight than any of the ones above.

This is not a complete list by any means. There are other brands such as Blue Ox, Camco, or Reese. A search will lead to information about all of these with reviews.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: Toyanvil
Date Posted: 29 May 2020 at 9:00pm
How does it tow now and why do you need a Weight Distribution Hitch? I tow my rpod with a 2008 Toyota Tacoma and have never seen a need for one.


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 8:50am
 WDH's work by reducing the load on the tow vehicle hitch and redistributing some of it to the trailer axle and the front axle. If you don't have one the load on the TV front axle goes down when you hang the trailer on it. WDH's do not increase your TV max hitch weight though, unless the TV manufacturer states that, and Toyota doesn't. So its not technically a matter of "needing" a wdh, if you are exceeding your tow vehicle max hitch load you have to reduce it. Its a matter of how the rig rides and having better control by having more load on the TV front axle, which is where your steering and  best brakes are. I tow my 179 with a Highlander. You will enjoy towing much more with a WDH, I wouldn't tow my trailer without one. 

I have a Curt WDH with separate sway control. Some WDH's have integrated sway control. The benefit is less stuff to take on and off the rig when hitching and unhitching. Personally, I prefer the two functions separated so I can adjust how much resistance to sway I'm getting based on conditions. If roads are wet or curvy I reduce the sway control effort. You can't do that with the integrated ones. It's a personal preference. 

I highly suggest that you weigh your rig axle by axle at a public scale so you know what you have. If you load that 190 at all heavily you will be at or even over the hitch weight limit of your Highlander. I'm right there on mine.  Load up the TV and trailer as you plan to camp, including water if you plan to boondock. You can get your trailer hitch weight by going through the scales twice, once with the rig and once with the TV by itself. The hitch weight is the difference between the total of the two TV axles with and without the trailer. Do not tension up the wdh when you take these weights and leave the wdh in the receiver when you weigh the TV. 


-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 9:15am
One advantage to a WHD is that it transfers weight to the front wheels, thus giving better steering control and, in front wheel drive vehicles, better traction for the drive wheels.  We got a Fastway e2 to use with our Pod and now use it with our new trailer.  It makes the ride vastly more comfortable and gives us much better directional control, both for the trailer and the TV.  The WHD function is especially useful when you start getting close to the CGVW limit, which you will be with the Highlander.  It's a small investment compared to the safety and comfort you gain.  

Though I can't speak to setting up other brands of WHD systems, setting up the e2 is super easy.  It adds about a minute or two to the hitch/unhitch process.  The slowest part is raising the trailer with the tongue jack to allow the bars to be put into proper position on the L brackets.  It really doesn't affect your ability to back up, unless you are on a steep uneven surface and need to make a very sharp turn.  In that case, it's easy to pop off the spring bars before backing into the parking space.


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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: richfsi
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 9:17am
Morning Fred, did you do the install on your e2? If so how difficult. Can you provide the model information please. 
Thank you!
Rich 


Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 9:27am
I would recommend the Fastway E 2. It's the only one I've ever used, so I don't claim to be an expert. The E2 has never given me a problem, It's easy to put on/off, and i've made 90 degree turns backing in without removing it. As far as "do you need it" I would say this. If when you hitch up your pod / camper, and the back end of the tow vehicle moves down, you NEED Wdh. There is no doubt that as the back end goes down, the front end goes up. If anyone wants to argue that having your steering wheels making less contact with the road is a good thing, Please don't tow thru my state. Not to mention the added sway control. Sway can happen at any time, by a number of different conditions. Just because it towed great on tuesday, it might not be so good on friday. Just having one wheel catch a pothole could cause it to sway out of control. 



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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 9:36am
Rich, yes, I did the installation on my e2.  It comes with a step by step instruction book which can be downloaded from their web site too.  It's mostly a matter bringing the trailer and TV back to level positions and torquing the bolts the proper values.  Here is the Fastway manual site: http:// www.fastwaytrailer.com/pdf/FW_Flash-E-Series-Instructions_DTBM521_PRINT.pdf -  https://www.fastwaytrailer.com/pdf/FW_Flash-E-Series-Instructions_DTBM521_PRINT.pdf

I have this hitch:   http://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution-Hitch/Fastway/FA94-00-0600.html??feed=npn&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIp6jym-fb6QIVUr7ACh3nsgMPEAYYBCABEgIUKfD_BwE - https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution-Hitch/Fastway/FA94-00-0600.html??feed=npn&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIp6jym-fb6QIVUr7ACh3nsgMPEAYYBCABEgIUKfD_BwE

Please feel to pm me and I'll send you my phone number if you want to talk about it on the phone.


-------------
Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: richfsi
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 9:48am
Thanks for all the great help Fred. 
Be well!
Rich


Posted By: richfsi
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 9:59am
Thanks to all for the good education and great help!


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 11:42am
The only challenging thing about installing a WDH is that a couple of the torque values are ~~ 250 ft-lbs, and most people don't have a torque wrench that goes that high. It is not terribly difficult to MacGyver a workaround though.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: Toyanvil
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 9:17pm
I will bring up the down side of Weight Distribution Hitch's used on Rpods, since no one else did. Rpods are known for axles bending from being over loaded and a WDH will add weigh to the trailer axle, if you load your Rpod close to the limit a WDH can put you over. This is why I asked how it tows without one. I have towed trailers for over 40 years and have never needed one for a trailer under 4000 lbs.


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 30 May 2020 at 10:12pm
Equal-i-zer's torque specification are: The hitch ball is 430 ft-lbs. The shank bolts are 320 ft-lbs. The sway bracket assemblies are 75 ft-lbs. See the https://www.equalizerhitch.com/manuals-guides/manuals/6k-14k-model-owners-manual - Equal-i-zer site for details.

-------------
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: richfsi
Date Posted: 31 May 2020 at 6:05am
I’m most concerned about sway control. Do They make just a hitch to address possible sway conditions?


Posted By: richfsi
Date Posted: 31 May 2020 at 6:07am
I’m most concerned with possible sway issues. Do they make a hitch to just address sway issues?



Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 31 May 2020 at 7:01am
Originally posted by Toyanvil

I will bring up the down side of Weight Distribution Hitch's used on Rpods, since no one else did. Rpods are known for axles bending from being over loaded and a WDH will add weigh to the trailer axle, if you load your Rpod close to the limit a WDH can put you over. This is why I asked how it tows without one. I have towed trailers for over 40 years and have never needed one for a trailer under 4000 lbs.

You raise a good point regarding increased trailer axle weight, and I wouldn't recommend a WDH for someone with a heavy tow vehicle. But trailer weight is not the criterion you should used to decide to get a whd or not, its the hitch weight of the trailer relative to the maximum hitch weight of the tow vehicle. Towing a relatively heavy trailer like a 190 with a relatively light and short wheelbase vehicle like a Highlander, a WDH makes a big difference. I have a similar rig and I am right at the my max hitch weight spec, while I have several hundred pounds of headroom on my trailer axle. At the tension level I put on my wdh I put an additional load of about 90 lbs on the trailer axle but reduce the load on the Highlander rear axle by about 270 lbs. That is a huge improvement for the Highlander for a small increase on the rPod. 


-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 31 May 2020 at 7:15am
Originally posted by richfsi

I’m most concerned with possible sway issues. Do they make a hitch to just address sway issues?


I wouldn't recommend that route for your rig but yes they do. 

You could get something like this

https://www.curtmfg.com/part/17200 - https://www.curtmfg.com/part/17200

If you don't have a wdh you will have to weld a tab to your ball mount. 

You will like towing that 190 with your Highlander much better with a WDH though.....

The best thing you can do to limit sway risk is to load the trailer properly, keeping the hitch weight to at least 10 and preferably more like 12% or higher of total trailer weight. In practice that's not hard to do as long as you don't haul around graywater because that tank is behind the axle. 


-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: jato
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2021 at 11:51am
Originally posted by offgrid

Originally posted by richfsi

I’m most concerned with possible sway issues. Do they make a hitch to just address sway issues?


I wouldn't recommend that route for your rig but yes they do. 

You could get something like this

https://www.curtmfg.com/part/17200 - https://www.curtmfg.com/part/17200

If you don't have a wdh you will have to weld a tab to your ball mount. 



This is all I have ever used towing a 177 for the past 11 years; 8 of them towing with either an '08 or '13 Ford Explorer.  Many road and weather conditions with no issues or problems.  Cost was $40 when purchased back in March 2011 so not surprised to see a cost increase.


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God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."


Posted By: riotkayak284
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2021 at 2:10pm
Highly recommend the Andersen system..... Been great for my 182G

https://andersenhitches.com/collections/wd-hitch


Posted By: smedleyludlow
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 9:40am
Originally posted by richfsi

I’m most concerned about sway control. Do They make just a hitch to address possible sway conditions?


The bottom line is if you detect ANY sway, slow down. 

I use a Camco R3 Recurve towing an RPod 176 with a Hyundai Santa Fe Limited Ultimate with a mushy rear end. There is about 300 lbs tongue weight.  The 400 lb spring bars positioned alongside the frame are insurance against dragging.  It works well although there was a gap of 0.080 between the hitch head and shank that Camco said closes when 260 ft lbs are applied to the bolts holding it together.  Instead, I fashioned an 0.080 shim that I put between the shank and hitch head that closed the gap before tightening the bolts.  I used a 1/2 in drive ratchet and 5 foot fence post as a cheater bar to tighten the bolts.  It's worked well for over 2,000 miles now. 


-------------
Projects take longer than expected, cost more than expected and will go wrong at the worst time.


Posted By: smedleyludlow
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 10:12am
Originally posted by richfsi

I’m most concerned with possible sway issues. Do they make a hitch to just address sway issues?
I forgot, sway control is built into the R3 Recurve.  It can be tightened for more control or loosened completely for backing.  Adjustment is done using an Allen wrench. Te bars don't have to come off for backing.


-------------
Projects take longer than expected, cost more than expected and will go wrong at the worst time.


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2021 at 4:51am
Don't wait to see if you have sway and then attempt to use sway control to tame it. If your load is properly balanced then you won't have sway to begin with.

Weigh your rig as loaded for travel and be sure the tongue weight is at least 10% of total trailer weight, preferably 11%. There have been incidences of sway in rpods at around 10%. Be sure to include water weight in the FWT (with gray and black empty) if you plan to boondock, and also water weight in the gray and black tanks on your return (with the FWT empty). Water is very heavy, water weight changed the tongue weight by about 3% on my rig.

You can obtain your trailer and tongue weights at a public scale by going through the scales twice, once with the trailer and once without it. On the first run get the combined weight of the two tow vehicle axles, then roll the trailer on and get the total combined weight. Trailer weight is the difference between the two total weights. Tongue weight is the difference between the weight of the two tow vehicle axles from the first and second runs. You can check all your other trailer and TV weight specs axles max combined weight) at the same time.

Move load forward or aft
so your tongue weight stays at least 10%. Or remove it. Then add the sway control system as backup.

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: smedleyludlow
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2021 at 8:38am
We have dragged our 176 probably 15,000 miles or more and never had any problem with sway.  But I don't go much over 70, occasionally 75 downhill.  The R3 recurve is new tho, Only about 3k miles on it. Prior to the R3 I used a sway bar. 


-------------
Projects take longer than expected, cost more than expected and will go wrong at the worst time.


Posted By: Colt
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2021 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by richfsi

Greetings, just purchased a 190. I am towing with a 2019 Toyota Highlander. Looking for a recommendation for a Weight Distribution Hitch. Appreciate the help!


Isn't the Highlander built on a unibody? Are any hitches built for it that are built for weight distribution?    

My SUV and 180 does not need weight distribution, nor sway damping, but I use a friction sway damper just in case. It is a unibody and nobody makes a weight distribution rated hitch for it.

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John
'16 R-Pod 180


Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 10:38am
Originally posted by Colt

Originally posted by richfsi

Greetings, just purchased a 190. I am towing with a 2019 Toyota Highlander. Looking for a recommendation for a Weight Distribution Hitch. Appreciate the help!


Isn't the Highlander built on a unibody? Are any hitches built for it that are built for weight distribution?    

My SUV and 180 does not need weight distribution, nor sway damping, but I use a friction sway damper just in case. It is a unibody and nobody makes a weight distribution rated hitch for it.

Yes, but I towed my 179 many thousands of miles with a 2012 Highlander and a 600/6000-lb E2 hitch and never had an issue. I think the issue comes if you oversize the WDH.


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Alan
2022 R-Pod 196 "RaptoRPod"
2022 Ram 1500 Lone Star 4x4
Three cats


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 5:47pm
I had a 1000 lb rated wdh on my Highlander, no issues. When a wdh is set correctly it will exert the same moment (torque) on the tow vehicle regardless of it's rating. That is because it is intended to return the load on the front axle to what it was without the trailer. It should never be tensioned more than that.

As for unibody vs body on frame, either one can be damaged by excessive moment (torque) beyond what it is designed for. That is for the manufacturer to tell us. So if your vehicle's owners manual allows use of a wdh you can use one, within the other load limitations of your vehicle. If it is not allowed (flr example Subaru does not authorize their use) then don't do it.

I always used a wdh with my rig, the the ride and handling was much better with it. That doesn't mean you have to use one, you are free to do what you want within the limitations of your vehicle.

The flip side of that is that a single individual's experience is not statistically significant, no matter how many thousands of miles one of us drives and it is ok (or not) that doesn't mean that something is (or isn't) dangerous. To have that level of confidence requires millions of miles driven by thousands of people.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 6:30pm
The stiffer the bars, the more stress it's going to place on the TV when you hit bumps. The lighter weight bars will act somewhat as shock absorbers.

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Alan
2022 R-Pod 196 "RaptoRPod"
2022 Ram 1500 Lone Star 4x4
Three cats


Posted By: Rpod-Couple
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2021 at 8:16pm
I concur with Alan. The 2019 Highlander weighs in at about 4500lbs - similar to my 2010 Mazda CX-9. There is roughly 2200 lbs resting on the front and rear axles. The WDH pushes upwards on a large sub frame around the rear axle. The WDH is pushing upwards on the chassis about 300lbs to offset the tongue weight. At most shifting 100-150 lbs to the front axle. Likewise 100-200 lbs is being pushed back on the rear axle of the 180. This amount of weight is well within the Highlander’s chassis capability when you consider what it’s total payload capacity is (as long as you aren’t loading a ton of gear in it.) I initially tried 1000 lbs spring bars and it made the ride very harsh as every bump the trailer wheels hit was transferred to my vehicle. I switched to 600 lbs bars and the ride smoothed out nicely. Hardly notice my 171 is there.  

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Steve & Elaine
2021 R-pod
2023 VW Atlas Cross Sport


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2021 at 8:41am
Sorry but your math is not correct. Put your actual weight numbers in this calculator. I have validated that it is calculating correctly. A wdh applies a moment (think torque) about the ball in order to transfer load to the front axle and trailer axle from the tongue and the rear of the TV.

In my case to apply the proper moment I needed to tension my wdh spring arms to 750-800 lbs. Note that the moment load on the spring bars (and TV frame) is independent of the spring bar rating up to the point of spring bar failure.

Under what conditions will that failure occur? Bump loads can double the steady state load on the system. The WDH designers of course know that as do the vehicle designers. So the spring bars need to be designed with a yield point roughly double the wdh rating. So around 1200 lbs for 600 lb bars and 2000 lbs for 1000 lb bars.

If I had used 600 lb bars on my rig I would have come close to or exceeded their yield point frequently under bump loads.

My ride was great with the 1000 lb spring bars so I was happy. 800 lbs would also have worked for me, but no lighter without risk of spring bar failure unless you are running a light rpod lightly loaded with also a lightly loaded TV. So a lightly loaded 171 might be fine with 600 lbs spring bars but not so with a heavier boondock ready 179 or other mid sized rpod.












https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php - towing calculator

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: PilotPodder
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2021 at 9:00pm
OG, you mention a calculator in your prior post, was there supposed to be link to it or am I missing something? 

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Portage, MI — 2017 RPod 179 - sold / 2017 Toyota Tundra — https://johnmarucci.com/r-pod-video-list/ - My RPod YouTube Videos


Posted By: Rpod-Couple
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2021 at 9:36pm
The WDH bars are 1” diameter making a cross sectional area of 0.785”. The yield point for mild steel is about 50,000 pounds-per-square inch  x 0.785 inch-squared = 39,000 lbs for each bar. I don’t see how 600 lbs spring bars are going to yield anywhere near 1200 lbs. They have a huge safety factor. 

I have run this on-line WDH calculator and everything is in the green for my CX-9, with 600 lbs WDH, and R-pod 171.  https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php - https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php





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Steve & Elaine
2021 R-pod
2023 VW Atlas Cross Sport


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2021 at 3:23am
The link to the towing calculator is down at the bottom of my post.

Re when the spring bars will fail you need to consider them as if they were cantilevered beams, fixed at one end with a point load at the other end. That beam configuration has a moment at the fixed end of M = F x d. d is 18 inches and in my case F is about 750/2 = 375 lbs (2 bars) , so M = 6750 in-lbs.

Assuming a 1 inch bar, the section modulus is 0.098 in^3 so the stress is M/S = 6750/.098 = 68 ksi. Way past the yield of mild steel. And that is before we add a 2x factor to handle 2 g bump loads, which are common.   

I don't have my trailer or wdh anymore but I'm sure the bars on my 1000 lb wdh were larger than 1 inch dia. Unlikely they are mild steel either, spring steels are around 100 ksi or better in order to not be to stiff in deflection. I did eventually find a statement that my bars were rated at 1000 lbs each max.

In any case, the point is that you can for sure bend your wdh spring bars under bump loads if they are too light for the application. So run the calculator for your actual load case and get wdh bars rated for that. Might be 600 lbs for a light rig but not for a heavier configuration set up for boondocking. In my case an 800 lb rated wdh would have worked but been marginal. The ride was quite comfortable will 1000 lb bars so I went with that. And you are not going to bend your TV frame by using a wdh with a higher rating because if you have it set up properly the max load on the bars, frame, and trailer will be the same regardless of the wdh rating.

-------------
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: smedleyludlow
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2021 at 8:56am
Originally posted by TheBum

Originally posted by Colt

Originally posted by richfsi

Greetings, just purchased a 190. I am towing with a 2019 Toyota Highlander. Looking for a recommendation for a Weight Distribution Hitch. Appreciate the help!


Isn't the Highlander built on a unibody? Are any hitches built for it that are built for weight distribution?    

My SUV and 180 does not need weight distribution, nor sway damping, but I use a friction sway damper just in case. It is a unibody and nobody makes a weight distribution rated hitch for it.

Yes, but I towed my 179 many thousands of miles with a 2012 Highlander and a 600/6000-lb E2 hitch and never had an issue. I think the issue comes if you oversize the WDH.

We tow a 2017 Rpod 176 with a Hyundai Santa Fe Limited Ultimate ( 5k tow capacity) and are soon acquiring a 2021 No Bo 16.6.  It has a unibdy that I use a Camco R3 Recurve WDH with 400 lb bars.  As such, I only put a couple of hundred pounds of weight distribution on the lightweight bars.  There are no prohibitions by Hyundai that I can find that say not to use a WDH. and my hitch is rated for 6000lbs and a WDH.  The main thing with a WDH is not to go over/through large dips or inclines that create a vertical angle between the TV and trailer.  This creates a great strain on the unibody, the spring bars and the trailer frame.  Hence the 400 lb bars. They will flex rather than break something.  


-------------
Projects take longer than expected, cost more than expected and will go wrong at the worst time.



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