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Fresh water tank leaking

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Forum Name: I need HELP!!!
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13345
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 4:30am
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Topic: Fresh water tank leaking
Posted By: Prestone
Subject: Fresh water tank leaking
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 10:27am
While camping this past weekend I noticed water dripping from the fresh water tank. Upon inspection it looks like there is a crack around the drain plug where it meets the bottom of the tank (see pic). From the pic it also looks like there is a failure in the silicon (or other caulking material) that binds the flange of the plug to the tank. But I’m not sure about this, maybe the crack is a brittle failure of the tank plastic.

Anyone knows what’s going on here? I’m contemplating slapping some silicon caulk on there to see if it holds.

Also, I was hooked up to city water at the time and the tank was empty prior. I thought city water supply bypassed the holding tank? Am I misunderstanding something here?

Thanks

Pres




Replies:
Posted By: Motor7
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 10:49am
It looks like something struck the drain stem, notice the fractures on each side sweep in the same direction? Silicone won't stick to it, I know there is adhesive for that plastic, but I don't know which one works. Another option is to plastic weld it, but again some expertise is needed.

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2016 R-Pod 176T


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 11:23am
The water back-filling when hooked to city water would most likely be a check valve problem. The location of that varies a bit depending on the R-pod model.

And Motor7 is correct, silicone would not stick very well to that plastic. I think (but am not 100% certain) that it's some kind of polyurethane plastic. Polyurethane is notorious (and or famous) for being impossible to glue. I would think your best option is to find someone that has the equipment and expertise to try to plastic weld it.


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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 12:51pm
That is a friction welded piece. Silicone won't work. Plastic welding will. I also am of the mind it struck something.

The back filling is a bad or most probably misaligned check valve flap in the front of the water pump. Turn off the city water, open a tap, then turn on the pump. That should reseat the flap.


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Posted By: Prestone
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 1:06pm
Ok so it unanimous, don’t use silicon and look for someone with plastic welding experience. Any recommendation for the Houston area? No one suggested a new tank... too expensive?

I’ll try the remedy suggested for the valve reset this weekend.

Thank all


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 2:45pm
There are a bunch of links all over the web about how to repair a polyurethane water tank. I just looked at this one, and it looked like it might actually work:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hEEsdrKieg - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hEEsdrKieg

This one might be a better bet that could actually work in your situation. A DIY poly welding kit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u829qLroshw - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u829qLroshw


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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

There are a bunch of links all over the web about how to repair a polyurethane water tank. I just looked at this one, and it looked like it might actually work:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hEEsdrKieg - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hEEsdrKieg

This one might be a better bet that could actually work in your situation. A DIY poly welding kit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u829qLroshw - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u829qLroshw

Both these look good to me and can't see why either wouldn't work. Except for where the crack actually is..
You issue is: You're working upside down.. really tough to weld (braze)... I think I'd try the fiberglass style. If you have never brazed before, I will say again, try the fiberglass system first, you can get into a lot of trouble fast if you don't know how to braze.

Looks like you caught the 1 in 1,000 pebbles flying around under there right on the drain plug.. 




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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways
2017 Tacoma
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build
2004 F150 My Overlander


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 4:31pm
The fresh water tank is polyethylene. Not much adheres to it. Flame treatment improves adhesion. Clean and dry the area first, alcohol wipe, then flame treat it, then apply the adhesive. I have had reasonable success on PE with West Systems gflex epoxy which if more flexible than regular expoxies.

Good luck!

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Prestone
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2020 at 6:34pm
Ok well I have some options, I’ll have to decide which one fits my skill set best . Thanks for the research and advise everybody. Now I just have to find the time.


Posted By: Pod People
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 5:32pm
We had a similar leak. JB Weld makes a 2 part glue system specifically for polyethelene. We bought a kit and it worked. It was instant and easy. Make sure the tank is empty and the area dried and cleaned as noted above. We found the JB Weld kit at Home Depot.
Vann


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Vann & Laura 2015 RPod 179
https://postimg.cc/0zwKrfB9">


Posted By: Pod People
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 5:35pm
I just looked it up—it is called JB WEld epxy putty for plastic
It was $7.99
Vann


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Vann & Laura 2015 RPod 179
https://postimg.cc/0zwKrfB9">


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by Pod People

I just looked it up—it is called JB WEld epxy putty for plastic
It was $7.99
Vann

I looked that stuff up at JB Weld and I either have the wrong stuff or else it specifically excludes polyethylene with the following statement:

"Does not adhere to polyethylene, polypropylene or some other plastics."

This is the stuff I am looking at:

https://www.jbweld.com/product/plasticweld-epoxy-putty - https://www.jbweld.com/product/plasticweld-epoxy-putty

However....

I did some more searching and came up with this stuff:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-Plastics-Bonding-System-2g-Super-Glue-681925/100371829 - https://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-Plastics-Bonding-System-2g-Super-Glue-681925/100371829

This is a glue from Loctite. In its specifications it says:

"Works well with polyethylene and polypropylene surfaces"

That is $4 for a 2 gram tube. I have no idea how large an area that might cover. It doesn't sound like much.


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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2020 at 6:39pm
I like the JB products, used them for years. Choosing the right one is important.

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Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."


Posted By: Prestone
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2020 at 7:40am
JB makes an epoxy putty called WaterWeld as well. It says it’s good for portable water tanks (many of which are made of polyethylene) but doesn’t specify whether it’ll work on polyethylene or not. I like the putty for ease of use in this application. I’ll get under there to take a better look at the crack this weekend before I decide.


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2020 at 9:55am
Googling the issue brought up several possible solutions:

TAP plastics has an adhesive they claim works well, but they note it hasn't yet been approved for food/water containers.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-9yhanz5DE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-9yhanz5DE

These folks also claim to have a fast bond material for polyethylene:   http://tbbonding.com/glue-polyethylene/ - https://tbbonding.com/glue-polyethylene/

Of course, Amazon always has something: http:// www.amazon.com/Technicqll-Adhesive-Polypropylene-Polyethylene-Silicone/dp/B006U49M3G -  https://www.amazon.com/Technicqll-Adhesive-Polypropylene-Polyethylene-Silicone/dp/B006U49M3G

And a Google User Group has an thread on this issue: http:// groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.woodworking/uuss6b0W6sI -  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.woodworking/uuss6b0W6sI

I have not tried any of these methods, but it looks like they may be worth looking into.  The TAP product looks like the best for holes or cuts in polyethylene tanks, but for until they designate it food safe, it may be best to use it only on waste tanks or you might be growing a new appendage or some other exotic new body part.  Indeed, with all of suggestions in this thread, it may be well worth looking into the food use safety issue.



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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2020 at 10:56am
The West Systems gflex tech specs give specific adhesion strength data for polyethylene with and without flame treatment. I don’t know why anyone would use a product that doesn’t specifically provide that data when there is at least one that does.

Regardless of what adhesive is used, do flame treat the area first. That is really easy, all you do is wave a propane torch over the area first. Polyethylene is a low surface energy plastic which is what you want for a fresh water tank, so gunk doesn’t stick to it. The flame treatment temporarily activates the polyethylene surface so stuff can stick.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2020 at 12:48pm
TAP provides the adhesion technical data too:   http://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/pdf/Tech%20Data-2011-%20Poly-Weld.pdf - https://www.tapplastics.com/uploads/pdf/Tech%20Data-2011-%20Poly-Weld.pdf

I should have looked at the West System site since it didn't show up on the Google search.  I've been using West System products for more than 40 years and they are very reliable.  Looks like either the TAP or the West g flex products would be good choices.  But, the West Systems data doesn't say wether it can be used to repair food/water containers for human consumption as is cautioned about by TAP in their video.  Bottom line, if you repair your fresh water tank with any product that is not certified for food/water containers, it might be best to test the water safety on Fido or someone else's children first.


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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2020 at 3:11pm
The TAP site states a lap shear adhesion of 2000 psi on flame treated HDPE. The West Systems site states a tensile adhesion of around the same number on the same material, also flame treated. But there is a difference between the two tests, the TAP one is done pulling on a lap joint so is measuring resistance to shear, while the West System one is a pull test perpendicular to the glued joint, putting tension on it. I’m quite sure the tension test is more difficult than the shear test, so if it were me I’d stick with the gFlex. Either way though, flame treatment is in order.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 8:31am
One more thing I just rembered, if you haven’t done the repair yet. Stop drill any crack(s) first, otherwise they will almost certainly just continue to propagate.

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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: Prestone
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2020 at 11:38am
I’ve been traveling for the last couple of weeks so I haven’t done anything yet. Good call on the drilling, I’ll have to read back through these posts when I’m ready to attempt a fix.


Posted By: Prestone
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 10:06am
So I finally got around to attempting a fix for the leak around the fresh water drain flange. Thanks for the discussion here, I would have slapped some silicon on there without all of the thoughts you all provided. The flange area is an obvious weak point so I didn’t want to spend big bucks on a fix considering the future likelihood for failure.

I decided to go with JB WaterWeld for three reasons...1) it’s drinking water safe, 2) it’s low cost ~$5, 3) application fits my skill set as a DIYer.

What’s the worst that could happen?.. I can always buy a new tank.

Here’s what I did. Cranking the tongue all the way up gave me enough room to slide under. Then I drilled stop holes on either end of the crack to prevent spreading. Next I took a drywall saw and sawed along the crack to increase the width (gap) careful to only cut on the pull stroke to prevent getting plastic shards in the tank. The idea was to create a small gap that the putty could fill instead of just spreading it on the surface. Finally I pushed the putty into the crack and spread it around the area a bit to get full coverage and applied a little upward pressure with a reversed quick clamp to keep alignment between the sides of the cracks as it was sagging a bit before.

So far so good, it held water overnight. We’ll see what effect time and usage have.

In the pics below you can see the crack with drilled holes, the texture of the putty and the clamping arrangement.





Posted By: crw8sr
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 5:19pm
Sounds like you nailed it.  Good luck on the repair.  Keep us updated.

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Chuck & Lyn
Izzy, Morkie. RIP
Zoe Joy & Gracie, Yorkie
2018 R Pod 190   
2019 Traverse

In moments of adversity;when life's a total wreck, I think of those worse off than me and really feel like heck.



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