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Towing with an Escape

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Topic: Towing with an Escape
Posted By: jasonraiderfan
Subject: Towing with an Escape
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 3:09pm
Hi I'm Jason from Virginia. I'm new here. I don't own anything yet but here's what I'm thinking. I've looked at and researched quite a bit now and I'm leaning towards an R-Pod for several reasons. If I get one it'll be a 171 or 172, not sure which yet. I plan to tow with a Ford Escape. I like the Escape because of the decent gas mileage and they're fairly inexpensive. I've read the topic of towing with an Escape on here and read mixed results. Some said it should be fine while others basically said to trash it and get a dually diesel truck that'll pull a freight train!! The Escape I'm looking at will be a Titanium 2.0L Eco Boost 4WD with 240 HP and 270lb of torque. With a 3500lb towing capacity, and 350lb bumper capacity. Dry weight on the 171 is 2342lbs dry and gross is 3242lbs. To me these numbers sound like they'll work. I like to hike and backpack. The camper will mostly be used by me on solo trips and basically as a base camp. I know I will never carry the full gross weight! I simply know that. I am an ultralight backpacker and the same principals will apply to this camper! I plan to boondock the majority of my trips and don't intend to carry much water until i'm within 20-30 miles of my destination. But I do plan to tow long distances and I will be crossing mountains! I am looking at other trailers (Geo Pro 14FK) that are lighter. But I'm diggin' the Pods! Honestly the 171(2) is more than what I'd need, but the Pods look super nice, comfy and seem pretty tough!! Is there anybody who has done something similar? Or has experience with Escapes? Thank you in advance!!

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Even when it's not ok, it's still gonna be ok.



Replies:
Posted By: Happy Tripping
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by jasonraiderfan

Hi I'm Jason from Virginia, "Even when it's not ok, it's still gonna be ok"

Uh..., no it's not.

My tv has 4500 pound capacity pulling a 171 and does fine. In my opinion, 3500# is ok if you drive along the flatlands along the east coast from Maine to Florida and on to Texas, but if you want to cross the Appalachians, you will find it to be not at all 'ok', and forget attempting any trips to the mountains out west.

I think you'll be happier with a smaller trailer - 

https://littleguytrailers.com/lgtrailer/tb/ , or tent camping.


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"There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he must take the bull by the tail and face the situation" - W.C. Fields


Posted By: jasonraiderfan
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 3:41pm
What are you towing with? 

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Even when it's not ok, it's still gonna be ok.


Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:37pm
The only vehicle I know of that is tow rated at 4500 pounds is a honda pilot. That would be my guess. Many people tow pods with 3500 pound tow cap vehicles. I personally think it's a little close for comfort, but  just take it slow and easy. If you truly don't pack much gear, and keep with 2800 pounds, you will probably never really have an issue. Make sure you have a tranny cooler and install an electronic brake control

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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding


Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 4:38pm
We have had many people towing with a 3500lb rating. Many of them have upgraded to a larger vehicle and remarked how much better the tow after. None that I recall died from using a 3500 rated vehicle. But many were in fact unhappy, and a couple damaged their vehicles.

I would suggest a new tow vehicle with a 5000lb rating or better, or going with a camper that has a lower profile and less weight.

BTW.. if you read your owners manual.. in the towing and cargo carrying capacities, you will find a "frontal area" chart.. Ford is one of a few companies that provide that bit of info. If I remember correctly, a Escape is limited to 22sqft of frontal area.. An R-Pod is more than double that..


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Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 5:27pm
+1 to Furpod. 

I tow in the Appalachians with my 5000 lb rated AWD Highlander all the time, I wouldn't consider anything lighter. If you boondock you will inevitably want more tongue and overall weight capacity than if you're staying in campsites with facilities. The trailer listed empty weight doesn't include any liquids (including the 50 lbs sitting in the water heater you can't get rid of, or batteries. And the 3500 lb tow rating is going to be assuming there is only a skinny driver in the tow vehicle, nothing else. Check your gross combined vehicle weight rating. 

And remember that that last 20 miles when you'll have water in the fresh tank is the toughest 20 miles of the whole trip. If you're overloaded going up and down steep windy mountain roads for 20 miles it is going to feel like 1000. 

The frontal area issue is another important point. Besided the ratings, the trailer wind drag determines your fuel economy. You will be getting around about 14 mpg on flat ground at 60 mph, less in the mountains. The escape only has a 15.7 gal gas tank. You'll want to keep at least 5 gallons in the tank in reserve, so your useful fuel load will only be about 10-11 gallons. You'll be stopping for fuel so often it will get frustrating, and stressful in the mountains. 

You will be much happier with a 5000 lb tow vehicle with a 20 plus gallon fuel tank, or a lighter lower profile trailer. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 5:59pm
Tail wagging the dog. Not fun.

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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: jasonraiderfan
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 6:30pm
I think I'm getting a picture here! I appreciate the input and definitely glad I haven't bought anything yet. I was just checking out the Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo. It's at 6200lb towing capacity and 17/24 mpg. Another question: What percentage gas mileage drop should I expect pulling a Pod??

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Even when it's not ok, it's still gonna be ok.


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 6:39pm
Having towed with an Escape, I think I have the background to comment on this.

First off, you have something right with the 4WD. I had a 2WD Escape (2016 with tow package). There were times when the weight distribution (WD) of the Equal-i-zer 4-point stabilization hitch was absolutely needed for me to be able to have any traction on the front tires. Without WD, it would have been impossible. Even with WD, it was very easy to spin the front tires when starting out. Loose sand or gravel? Forget it!

Second, the Escape, even with the tow package (which I hope yours has) will need you do do some crawling under the vehicle in order to connect a brake controller. The Escape is not pre-wired for the 7-pin connector. It only has the 4 pin which can't control the brakes. There is now one that does not require this effort as it is wireless. That is the https://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Controller/Tekonsha/90250.html#/ - Prodigy RF Wireless Brake Controller by Tekonsha . It wasn't available when I got our brake controller, a https://www.etrailer.com/s.aspx?qry=Hopkins+InSIGHT#/ - Hopkins InSIGHT FlexMount Brake Controller . The InSIGHT has the advantage of flexible mounting of separate components so you can place the display in your field of vision and have the hand controller placed where it makes sense for you. The controller itself hides under the dash. The wireless one has the big advantage that it can be moved easily to another vehicle since it is  not mounted and not additional wires to run. However, I would think you would still need to run wires and make a connection if you want your R-Pod's battery to charge while you are driving. The four pin connector can't do that.

Agreed that frontal area is an issue. I had gotten a PurpleLine AeroPlus wind deflector. Between that and keeping my top speed to 60 mph or less, my mileage was acceptable. Before I got the deflector and was trying to make time to get to our daughter's house in Nevada, the mileage was 8-10. After getting the deflector and realizing that we did not need to be in such a hurry, mileage ran 13-16 mpg. The Escape will need to be fed premium fuel. We were stopping every 100 miles to fill up before I slowed down. With the higher price for premium, it was getting expensive!

The Escape did have plenty of power unless one hit a 25+ mph headwind. Even going up mountain roads was not too bad. The one time it was difficult was the climb in Virginia up a steep, winding road with many hairpin turns where we could not build up any speed, but were going 20 mph or less, often 10 or 15 mph. Then it was not that the Escape lacked power. It lacked cooling. We could not go fast enough for sufficient airflow over the transmission cooler and radiator. The car's computer first cut power, then signaled to stop and let it cool off as we were in danger of damaging the engine. Once we cooled off for a few minutes and got going again, we got out of the hairpin turns and were able to build up some speed. That with the cooler temperatures we were getting into at the BRP elevation, we had no further problems.

We probably would have continued to tow with the Escape had we not encountered ice with a strong cross-wind and had an accident. The Escape needed repair and we needed to continue our trip so we bought the Frontier we use now. After the Escape was repaired, we sold it, taking a big loss on it since it was not that old.

 You can tow with your Escape, but eventually, you would probably want something with more capacity and a larger fuel tank. If a new tow vehicle isn't a possibility, the Escape will work as long as you respect it and don't overestimate its capabilities.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: jasonraiderfan
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 6:48pm
Wow!! Thanks!

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Even when it's not ok, it's still gonna be ok.


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 7:41pm
As for mileage, don't expect to get anything like the sticker mileage unless you get the way-overkill diesel. 12-14 is probably a good average for a gasoline engine, perhaps a little better. With the Frontier, we get between 12 and 14 mpg. The biggest advantage is the larger gas tank gives us much more range than we had with the Escape. The highway mileage of the Frontier is supposed to be 19 mpg. We have rarely hit that even when we were not towing.

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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: Andy
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 8:52pm
There is an old adage that "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" and that really applies here.  If you're intent on using the Escape you probably would be happier with a smaller, lighter TT.  If you want something in the 20-25 foot range, then a pickup with v-8 and at least 5.3L would be best for climbing mountains. I also use a Weight Distribution Hitch and a sway bar to sooth my anxiety.
Happy trails


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2017 179
2016 Silverado Z71


Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2019 at 9:38pm
The Escape has one good thing going for it. The distance between the rear axle and the hitch ball is short (about 3'). That means that the trailer does not exert as much force trying to sway as that of a longer axle to hitch distance vehicle such as the Frontier we have now (about 5'). I had a better towing experience with the Escape than with the Frontier with the same trailer and same hitch.

In Europe, smaller vehicles are routinely used for towing. Europe's Escape, the Kuga, has a tow rating of 2,000 Kg, or about 4,400 lbs. The site I looked at which was Great Britain based recommended though that a trailer not be over 85% of the tow vehicle's curb weight unless one is a very experienced driver. In that case it could go up to the tow vehicles curb weight. However, one could be cited if the trailer's weight exceeds the curb weight of the tow vehicle.  The best I can find is that the weight of the Escape is 3,772 lbs. 85% of that is 3,206 lbs. 93% of that is a few pounds over 3,500 lbs but is still under the curb weight.

Bigger isn't always better. Sometimes it is just bigger. There are a lot of variables that go into what makes a safe tow vehicle.


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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 7:04am
Originally posted by jasonraiderfan

I think I'm getting a picture here! I appreciate the input and definitely glad I haven't bought anything yet. I was just checking out the Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo. It's at 6200lb towing capacity and 17/24 mpg. Another question: What percentage gas mileage drop should I expect pulling a Pod??

That TV sounds like a good choice, it would allow you to bring pretty much whatever gear you wanted to, as well as a full water tank and a couple of the mods we boondockers love (dual batteries and propane cylinders). And have weight, fuel capacity, and power reserves for safety. 

Whatever you get, don't over focus on tow rating, look also at the GCVWR and try to have a significant reserve on that with both the tow vehicle and trailer fully loaded. And don't underestimate what the trailer will end up weighing, I can guarantee you it will be a lot more than you expected. That trailer empty weight rating is very misleading, it doesn't even include the normal options on the trailers.  Here's a nice towing calculator you can use:

https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php - https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php

Folks who haven't driven there tend to discount the challenging nature of driving the back roads of the Appalachians. Having driven mountainous terrain extensively in both the east and west, I consider the Appalacians the equal of anything in the Sierras. You're going up and down many 2-3000 foot grades with multiple hairpin turns. 

If you're thinking of towing fuel economy as a percentage of fuel economy not towing, that's not how it works. Over 2/3 of the work a rig needs to do to run down a flat highway at 60 mph is overcoming trailer drag forces. Only about 1/3 is used to overcome rolling resistance. That basically means that everything else being equal you'll get the same fuel economy towing the same trailer regardless of what vehicle you tow it with. Assuming that it is a modern vehicle with an efficient drivetrain that number will be about 13-14 mpg for an rPod. 

You can't get around that, its basic physics. You can make it worse if for example you get an underpowered tow vehicle where the engine is operating at high rpm so its not very efficient, or if you get unlucky and your tow vehicle happens to have to shift up a gear right at the speed you want to tow.  That's why you frequently see better fuel economy towing with a heavier tow vehicle where the engine is running at lower rpm.

Your fuel economy will drop significantly from there if you're climbing in the mountains. Figure about 1 gallon extra for every 3000 feet of climb (and going east- west across the Appalachians you have many 3000 ft ridges to cross).  It will also go down dramatically with headwinds and improve dramatically with tailwinds. Even light winds can make a big difference.  I've seen both 18 mpg and 11 mpg on the same stretch of flat highway here on the OBX going opposite directions on the same day due to winds. 






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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold


Posted By: mjlrpod
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 7:39am
Although the tacoma seems to be the top choice of mid size tow vehicles with a 6500 pound tow capacity, I would say take a look at the Nissan Frontier. It is every bit as good as the taco, and you should be able to pick one up much cheaper. I see Frontiers pulling double axle rigs all the time and it's a very reliable tow vehicle. It has a 6100 -6300 pound capacity depending who you ask. My Frontier pulls my 172 effortlessly, and I don't pack light, I carry everything I want. I get well over 3000 pounds many times. Much cheaper than the jeep, and in my opinion, a better overall vehicle.

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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding


Posted By: podwerkz
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 9:19am
Nissan Frontier: be aware that there is a standard 4 banger that has a lower tow rating. The optional V6 is the one you really want for towing.

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r・pod 171 gone but not forgotten!


Posted By: jasonraiderfan
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 9:22am
Thanks!! I'll check them out today!!

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Even when it's not ok, it's still gonna be ok.


Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 10:15am
Originally posted by offgrid

Folks who haven't driven there tend to discount the challenging nature of driving the back roads of the Appalachians. Having driven mountainous terrain extensively in both the east and west, I consider the Appalacians the equal of anything in the Sierras. You're going up and down many 2-3000 foot grades with multiple hairpin turns.
I disagree most emphatically. Winding roads are winding roads wherever you go. We have some humbling/winding roads right in our back yard that make hairpin turns that you would not be able to negotiate pulling a trailer; even one as short as an R-pod. But there is nothing more humbling than altitude along with hairpin curves. Normally aspirated  (NA) engines lose a lot of power at 6, 7, or even 8 thousand feet, and the Sierra has some passes well over that. Our Tacoma does great until we get up to some of those higher elevations, simply because it is NA. Our turbo'd F-150 shrugs at those elevations.

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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost


Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

Originally posted by offgrid

Folks who haven't driven there tend to discount the challenging nature of driving the back roads of the Appalachians. Having driven mountainous terrain extensively in both the east and west, I consider the Appalacians the equal of anything in the Sierras. You're going up and down many 2-3000 foot grades with multiple hairpin turns.
I disagree most emphatically. Winding roads are winding roads wherever you go. We have some humbling/winding roads right in our back yard that make hairpin turns that you would not be able to negotiate pulling a trailer; even one as short as an R-pod. But there is nothing more humbling than altitude along with hairpin curves. Normally aspirated  (NA) engines lose a lot of power at 6, 7, or even 8 thousand feet, and the Sierra has some passes well over that. Our Tacoma does great until we get up to some of those higher elevations, simply because it is NA. Our turbo'd F-150 shrugs at those elevations.

Then we will need to agree to disagree, emphatically. I'm speaking from experience having driven both, many times. 


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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold



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