Bearings and Wheel Problem-Twice
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Topic: Bearings and Wheel Problem-Twice
Posted By: CAhikers2x2
Subject: Bearings and Wheel Problem-Twice
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 6:44pm
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Our 2015 P-Pod 177 has again experienced the same symptoms and/or problem rendering it unsafe on the road.
Driving Symptoms...The steering becomes uncontrollable and the rig wants to stop on a dime with the slightest use of brakes and trailer brake controller. Visual Symptoms...Both wheels are angled inward at the top and outward at the bottom. We had routine maintenance in Feb. 2018 when the bearings were repacked and all else was good to go. We estimate traveling 6000-7000 miles thus far in Feb 2018 with the Pod. We also changed tow vehicles in March. At the end of our recent 1800 mile vacation around the Sierra Mts. (Sept 2018) we experienced the above symptoms for the 1st time when exiting off the freeway. A reputable RV dealer was literally in site and accepted the Pod for repair. The original Pod bearings were said to be bad and replaced. The brakes had no damage. On one more outing and traveling about 80 miles, the same driving and visual symptoms occurred for the 2nd time when exiting the freeway. With one added symptom that the driver side tire had burning rubber and smoking when applying the brakes. We hobbled to our nearby campground and later ended up having the Pod towed to the RV dealer who last replace the bearings, where it is today. We suspect the bearings (of 80 miles)are bad again. Something deeper is going on, we all agree, but what? We would appreciate some suggestions, especially from the forum experts and any Pod owners who may have experienced similar symptoms. P.S. It was a pleasure to meet CharlieM while at Toulumne Meadows CG. ------------- Roger & Joanne 1 Camper Dog "Scout" 2015 RP 177 2016 Nissan Frontier 2001 Coleman Westlake |
Replies:
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 7:08pm
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WOW. Glad you have it at a repair facility and trust you have faith in them. I do not believe it is a brake issue from your post. Is there any indication of tire wear? The primary things I would look at are faulty bearings, over tightened bearings, miss-aligned spindles and lastly inner grease seals compromised. All of which a trailer axle expert can identify. Wish I could be of more help, these type problems can be a bugger. Would be interesting to me, to know if trailer tracks straight. Like when you see a car on the road and you can see all 4 wheels. The vehicle is going down the road sideways. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 10:42am
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I agree with mcarter. It's possible your repair was done incorrectly by over-tightening, or under-tightening. It's also possible the spindles were damaged when the bearings went bad. I'd also check the tracking. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: Woodmiester
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 12:40pm
I had a similar issue years ago with a larger trailer. Came to find out it was a bent axle. The dealer explained to me that these axles are manufactured then strapped (under tremendous pressure) onto whatever is hauling them. My axle may have been one that was on the top and was in direct contact with the strap. These axles are stored in this configuration until the trailer manufacture actually breaks the bands and uses the axles which could be quite awhile. At any rate, I had the axle replaced and that ended the problems. ------------- Swampfox |
Posted By: CAhikers2x2
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 1:08pm
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Thank you for your response. I don't think we have any damage to the tires. We have the heavy duty tires on our Oregon made Pod.
I hope the tracking can be tested at the current RV service location. From 2015 to Sept 2018 we have had no issues. We will definitely look into the issues you have suggested. Many thanks. Roger and Joanne ------------- Roger & Joanne 1 Camper Dog "Scout" 2015 RP 177 2016 Nissan Frontier 2001 Coleman Westlake |
Posted By: CAhikers2x2
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 1:28pm
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Thank you for your additional input. I am getting to know my trailer parts more and more. Not the preferred reason however!
We appreciate your added input and agreement to mcarter's comments. Our tow driver also mentioned spindles. We're trying to keep an open mind and get to the root. Thanks again. We will share the outcome. Roger and Joanne ------------- Roger & Joanne 1 Camper Dog "Scout" 2015 RP 177 2016 Nissan Frontier 2001 Coleman Westlake |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 2:50pm
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The dealer you have trailer at for repair should be able to determine if the axle is bent. Really not a difficult process. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: CAhikers2x2
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 7:02pm
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Another very good possibility. I do appreciate your input with many thanks. I will pass this info on to the RV tech.
Do you recall having premature wearing of bearings and the wheels tweaked inward at the top and outward at the bottom and braking quickly? Did you have all or some of these issues as we are having?? Roger and Joanne ------------- Roger & Joanne 1 Camper Dog "Scout" 2015 RP 177 2016 Nissan Frontier 2001 Coleman Westlake |
Posted By: CAhikers2x2
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 7:06pm
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Thank you. I was wondering about that. Nice to know something is an easy verification!
Joanne ------------- Roger & Joanne 1 Camper Dog "Scout" 2015 RP 177 2016 Nissan Frontier 2001 Coleman Westlake |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 8:10pm
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Ours is having the bearings replaced as well as brakes along with a new drum for the door side. Symptoms were much the same - wheels tilted in at the top, brakes grabbing unevenly. On the door side, there was excessive wear of the magnet. On the slide side, the grease seal had failed. I had replaced the grease seal and hand packed the bearings before our last trip, however, I had noticed unusual tire wear on the inside edge of the slide side tire as well as the excess camber. I had asked them to check the axle. I am waiting on word as to the final verdict when the other work is complete. It did not look to me like the bearings were worn excessively. However, I will have to trust the judgment of the technicians who know what they are supposed to look like instead of my untrained judgment.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: CAhikers2x2
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 9:34pm
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Thank you for sharing. This sounds like we have some similar symptoms. The brakes wanting to stop quickly and the wheels not vertical to the ground...is this called camber? On trailers like our pods, are the wheels supposed to be at a vertical camber?
We do have the west coast Hood River Edition with the beefy tires so tire wear is something I would not notice. Somewhere I recall the Hood River Edition having a "dropped axle". Is this so and is this common with other trailers? Many thanks, this sounds so similar. Joanne ------------- Roger & Joanne 1 Camper Dog "Scout" 2015 RP 177 2016 Nissan Frontier 2001 Coleman Westlake |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 10:19pm
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See this for an explanation of camber: http://blog.easternmarine.com/trailer-axle-camber-what-its-all-about/ - http://blog.easternmarine.com/trailer-axle-camber-what-its-all-about/ Also, see the Trailer Axle Owners Manual: http://www.lci1.com/assets/content/support/manuals/Trailer-Axle-Owners-Manual.pdf - http://www.lci1.com/assets/content/support/manuals/Trailer-Axle-Owners-Manual.pdf I'm, not sure what you mean about a "dropped axle." It could be the angle of the arm to which the spindle is attached. On mine, it is angled a little upward. It was set to a downward angle starting in 2017 (I think). Mine has riser blocks but the ones with the re-clocked axle did not come with riser blocks although they can be added for even more height. I can't find any thing about a "dropped axle" when I am searching. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: CAhikers2x2
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2018 at 1:23am
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Thanks Stephen for helping me understand more of the mechanics of our Pod. I will check these links and pursue where I picked up "dropped axle". I could be using the wrong terminology for exactly what you are telling me. Our Pod does seem to sit high off the ground. But it came standard that way because of the large tires. Everything was stock, from my understanding when we purchased it new.
I have been overwhelmed with everyone's great interest. Thanks again, Joanne ------------- Roger & Joanne 1 Camper Dog "Scout" 2015 RP 177 2016 Nissan Frontier 2001 Coleman Westlake |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2018 at 7:23am
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We are both looking for answers on this issue. When I hear from the dealer's service department, I will let you know.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Woodmiester
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2018 at 8:18am
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All of these issues were experienced by me on the bent axle issue. A very easy diagnosis. Merely stretch a string from one end of the axle to the other. The string should sit flat on the axle from end to end. It if does not, you have a problem. ------------- Swampfox |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2018 at 2:56pm
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Thanks. That is a simple way to check. When we get it back (probably before we leave the service department) I will ask if they checked for a bent axle (they are supposed to). If not, then I will have some string with me to do so.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: CAhikers2x2
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2018 at 9:18pm
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I look forward to hear from you about what your RV techs find.
Thank you. Axle was mentioned by our RV tech when the tow truck dropped it off about 100 miles from home. Joanne ------------- Roger & Joanne 1 Camper Dog "Scout" 2015 RP 177 2016 Nissan Frontier 2001 Coleman Westlake |
Posted By: seafans
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2018 at 6:55pm
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CAhikers2x2  ,have you checked the total axle weight of the trailer? Next time you are out run the trailer through a weight station that is closed so they don't git upset. Go very slowly over the scale. The axle weight should not be over about 3800-3900 to be safe. Depending on the empty weight. They only have about 800lbs. useful load.
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Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2018 at 9:20am
As usual, YMMV. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2018 at 11:23am
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The dealer said measurements were sent to LCI. I have not yet heard the results. I suspect a new axle may be in our 'Pod's future. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 1:31pm
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Well, I got the answer from the dealer. Lippert sent a non-answer answer to the measurements: Begin quote: Thank you for
providing the information. It is possible the axle beam is somehow bent.
The customer may need to replace the axle beam. Based on the DOP of the
unit is out of warranty. Because the unit is 2 years out of warranty I
will not be able to assist with this issue. End quote. It frustrates me that the person who replied could not say it was or wasn't based on the measurements sent by my dealer. The bottom line is that I will be replacing the axle. I view this as a Forest River design flaw. The supports for the axle should be closer to the wheels. Then the road forces would be less able to exert excessive force on the axle. I saw one YouTube video where a shop welded extended mounting brackets to the outside of the frame on both sides to provide a mounting point closer to the wheels. However, I expect that the axle that will replace the one that is on there will be of the same type that is already there and will be subject to the same forces that bent the first one.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 4:07pm
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It should be possible to put an inverted support cradle over the axle that is attached to the frame. You would only have to weld the part that attaches to the frame, and the part that extends over the outer part of the axle would just "wrap" over the top. This would probably increase the load capability of the axle by several hundred pounds without any modifications to it at all.
------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 4:31pm
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Roger & Joan, What was the ultimate outcome of your axle, brake, suspension issue? Hope you got everything fixed okay. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 5:14pm
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SH,
I was thinking about my old racing days. We would attach ladder bars, traction bars or support beams to the axles and then to the frame. Basically to square the axle under torque. Issue with Pod is you probable shouldn't weld to the axle. You can weld to the frame, but I was thinking about a bolt on solution. You could mount outside of present mounting areas and then back to frame. It may possibly add support outside of the present mounting area. I agree you got a non-answer from Lippert. I'll look at it and offer advice. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 5:43pm
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SH,
Just a comment. I have a Dexter axle. Some time ago I was on phone with etrailer and they told me the Dexter axle is more reliable. I have also seen some talk about Lippert and Dexter being one and the same. I can't verify that. Maybe someone else can. I have had more than one person tell me if you have a failed Lippert replace it with a Dexter. The brake and wheel parts are compatible. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 8:40pm
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Thank you. My dealer ordered the axle already. It is likely that another Lippert axle was ordered. I will email and ask. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Wood River Pod
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 9:44pm
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SH, did you replace with the same axle as original? Or did you beef it up to the next weight class? I think the next Lippert up is 4,500 or 5,000. Thanks Jeff ------------- Smith's in Hailey Early 2017 179 HRE http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9134&PN=1&title=wood-river-179-mods - Wood River Mods |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2018 at 1:31pm
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The dealer ordered the same axle as the original. I would have preferred upgrading. When I get it back, I will look and see if there is a way to make a bracket that would brace the parts of the axle between the mounting bracket and the arms that would be bolt-on and not require welding. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: CAhikers2x2
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 1:03pm
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We too are waiting for a new axle. Our extended warranty will cover "like for like" (less deductable and shipping). We hope this will be our resolve. Waiting for job completion and will post any new info when we pick up our Pod. Good luck to you and your Pod.
Joanne and Roger ------------- Roger & Joanne 1 Camper Dog "Scout" 2015 RP 177 2016 Nissan Frontier 2001 Coleman Westlake |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 1:08pm
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We don't have the extended warranty, so ours will be out-of-pocket.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: CAhikers2x2
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 2:09pm
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So sorry to hear that.
We did a long hesitation when we were buying our Pod new. We have used it once before, for a "crack" in one of the stove burners. The flame was trying to go below the burner. Yeah, that seemed scary. We combined with an exterior seal coming loose under the slide out (on the trailer wall section). Again, there was a $100. deductible...so pool the claims together if you can. ------------- Roger & Joanne 1 Camper Dog "Scout" 2015 RP 177 2016 Nissan Frontier 2001 Coleman Westlake |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 4:47pm
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I got the call that our R-Pod is ready to be picked up. I will see if I can find out more about the old axle and what could have bent it when I go to pick it up on Friday.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: Vector1952
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 2:54pm
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I had a brake problem...when I used the bottom keter rail I damaged the wiring to the right side...only the left brake was being used...when braking trailer would jump jump and was very sensitive to the touch when braking...great wear on left wheel...replaced both left and right brakes with the brake kits sold at tractor supply company...cut the bottom mesh in two pieces...end of my problem... ------------- Xxxx7 |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 4:30pm
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Update: No real answers as to what could have caused it to bend. The replacement axle was the same specifications as the original. Cost was $504.95 plus hardware kit $21.95 plus labor $250 plus tax, or $831.28 installed. Other items installed were two electric brake assemblies, a new hub, and new bearings and seals. Work also included repairing a water leak in the slide. From the way it was described, the work needed to seal it was extensive and included removing parts of the flange to get to the source and seal it. This ended up being a very expensive trip to the dealer to pick it up. However, given the amount of use we have given it, we have to expect that we would need to do maintenance. If I think of it as that we have towed it over 30,000 miles, it works out to about $.09/mile for what we paid. That does not include the new tires I have purchased or the cost of my modifications. We have spent quite a bit on the modifications, but they are not maintenance as such. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2019 at 4:11am
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StephenH, some forensics could be useful here. Were you or they able to determine where the axle bent? For example, was it the axle tube or the spindle attachment? If the tube, was the failure inboard or outboard of the frame attachment point? Which side? ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2019 at 9:26am
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Unfortunately, I was not able to determine it and I don't have the axle here to research further. I'll see if the dealer would be able to answer the questions.
------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2019 at 10:07am
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Sounds good. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Billy Bob
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2019 at 11:38am
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Steve, pretty economical trailer for the mx costs vs usage !!!! ------------- 2019 RPOD 190 2017 Chev Colorado 4 X 4 Yellow Lab and English Springer Spaniel |