A Disappointing Surprise with the Water Heater
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Forum Name: Podmods, Maintenance, Tips and Tricks
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URL: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12298
Printed Date: 10 Jul 2025 at 9:13pm
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Topic: A Disappointing Surprise with the Water Heater
Posted By: lostagain
Subject: A Disappointing Surprise with the Water Heater
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 9:52am
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When we bought our used 2009 R-Pod the dealer took us through the systems and showed us how everything was supposed to work. Unfortunately, the sales person didn’t know his socks from his skivvies when it comes to how the hot water heater worked. He told me that the switch in the galley operated the hot water heater whether on gas or electricity. Being an utter neophyte when it came to travel trailers, I accepted what he said and never gave it another thought. Since almost all of our camping is in national forest camp grounds we’ve always used gas to heat the water the few times when we wanted hot water. On the rare occasions when we stayed in RV parks, I never bothered with hot water since they had nice hot showers with an unlimited supply. Last winter I started noticing some weird electrical issues popping up, such as tripping the GFI on one of our garage plugs when we plugged the trailer into a 20-amp plug. The #5 breaker (unlabeled) also would trip from time to time. Again, since we didn’t use AC much while traveling, I didn’t pay adequate attention to these warning signs. Finally, I decided to try to trace down what was going on. I discovered that the #5 breaker on a 172 is for the water heater circuit. I looked in the archives and found that there was a switch hidden behind some gas piping in the outside part of the water heater. Further checking in the archives revealed that this was how one turned on and off the electric heating element and, as furpod had noted in one of the posts, the switch at the galley is only for gas. I looked at my switch. It was on. I realized that every time I had plugged in the trailer to AC, I was powering up the #5 circuit. Most assuredly, my heating element was toast. I called FR and learned that in the newer models there is a second switch inside the trailer for the water heater. They assured me that on my model there was one under the galley counter. I looked. It wasn’t there. I traced the Romex from the water heater and it went straight to the breaker panel. I went back and forth with FR and finally, one of the old timers confirmed that the only switch for the hot water heater was the one outside. Unfortunately, there was nothing in the manual. Now, I have installed a second switch inside the trailer next to the hot water heater with a protector so it can’t be accidentally turned on. I replaced the heating element and now have electrically heated water along with the gas. I leave the outside switch in the water heater compartment permanently on and can turn the heating element on and off from inside the trailer; and only when I am absolutely sure the tank is full. Moral of the story: Don’t depend on dealers to tell you what you need to know. Chances are they don’t know squat. If you own an older R-Pod you may want to check out the water heater switch situation, so you don’t make the same mistake I did. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Replies:
Posted By: Billy Bob
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 10:07am
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I totally agree with you....the information here on this forum is much better than any dealer. I learned about this switch myself here. I won't have to winterize, but a water question. if the fresh water tank has been filled, and hot water tap at the sink turned on, the hot water tank fills. correct? then the only way to drain it - the hot water tank - is how? I don't think it drains when you drain the fresh water tank? ------------- 2019 RPOD 190 2017 Chev Colorado 4 X 4 Yellow Lab and English Springer Spaniel |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 10:28am
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If the hot water tank has been drained, you need to refill it either using the pump drawing water from the 30 gal. fresh water tank or from city water. My practice to ensure the water heater tank is full is to turn on the not water valve at the galley and let it run until there is a nice steady stream of hot water with no bubbles, air, or spurting. When I spoke with the FR rep, I was told that newer R-Pods have a switch in the shower for hot water. My understanding was that it was in the circuit for the electric heating element and allowed it to be controlled from the inside of the trailer, but having said that, I'd look further into it to make sure that it really controls the electric heating element.
------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 12:01pm
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My 2015 178 has the CB and the outside switch. I don't engage CB until I am hooked up and ensure there is water in the heater. I turn on outside switch when setting up.
Easiest way to drain (when winterizing) is relieve pressure and remove anode rod. You want to clean the tank anyway. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 12:19pm
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When I pulled out the switch on the outside back of the water heater to test if it was still good, I was not impressed with the quality. It looks like it's not a switch that you want to use a lot. I put a regular household switch in the space where the water heater is located that interrupts the conductor from the circuit breakers to the water heater. Thus, it de-powers the hot water heater completely as would the breaker, giving a double redundant protection not counting the flimsy switch on the water heater. I plan to flip the water heater switch a couple times a year just to "clean" the contacts, but will not be using it to turn the water heater off and on. I'm still tryin to understand why they didn't put an easily accessible switch for electric hot water inside the older trailers and why they didn't even mention the switch on the back of the water heater on the outside. I think I'll figure out the meaning of life and why the Higgs Boson particles exist before I figure out the logic of FR on the electric water heater controls. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: Billy Bob
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 12:24pm
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in our 2019 190, the only inside switch is on the panel in the bath which is to use propane. the electric switch is outside on the water heater. ------------- 2019 RPOD 190 2017 Chev Colorado 4 X 4 Yellow Lab and English Springer Spaniel |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 12:31pm
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Then FR is as confused as ever. They said it controlled the electric heat element. Yikes! It cost me (repurposing stuff around the house, of course) less than $2 dollars for the switch, the box, 2 wire nuts, the switch plate, a piece of plumber's tape for the switch guard, and about a foot of scrap 12 awg, a little piece of wood for a spacer, and 4 screws to complete the modification. Why in heaven's name do they expect you to go out into a rainy, stormy night to open the water heater access door and grope around trying to find the little hidden switch? It would cost them even less to put an electric control switch inside and properly label it. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: Woodmiester
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 12:45pm
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What Billy Bob said is correct. The only electrical heating element switch for the water heater is outside. The switch in the bathroom is for gas only. (On the new 190). ------------- Swampfox |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 3:52pm
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Billy Bob and Woodmeister, you do also have a CB for the water heater correct? Two electric controls and 1 propane, mine has, the propane control is on the same panel as the slide switch. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 5:03pm
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I think the reference to CB is circuit breaker? They're not really intended to function as a regular switch are they? FR didn't say anything to be regarding using the circuit breaker as an alternative for a regular on/off switch. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 5:16pm
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Exactly, by definition a circuit breaker is an automatically operated electrical switch designed to protect an electrical circuit from damage caused by excess current from an overload or short circuit. Its basic function is to interrupt current flow after a fault is detected. It is a switch. SO on my Pod I have two existing switches that control the operation of the water heater element. The fact it is in the circuit is testimony enough, I really doesn't matter what FR says. It won't work without it, it is the protected power supplier. you could put 6 additional switches in the circuit and they wouldn't work without power application. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 5:40pm
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BTW - the small toggle on the water heater is supplied by and part of the suburban water heater, it didn't come from FR. What FR did was add the CB that controls power to the water heater. So you can leave that switch on all the time and when you know you have water in the WH, flip the circuit breaker on. You'll have hot water. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 6:29pm
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Not to get too technical, but a horizontally mounted CB may not be used as a switch. The National Electric Code permits use of a circuit breaker as a switch if it is mounted vertically so that on is the upper most position and off is the lower most position. The circuit breakers in our Pod are mounted horizontally, and the one that controls the water heater is labeled "5-15 amp" with no reference to the appliance or circuit it controls. Yes, the breaker is an "SWD" rated breaker so if it were to be installed vertically it would be useable as a switch. But, inasmuch as it is not "legally" a switch and the other switch is hidden away under gas piping outside the coach, it might be a better design, and certainly not expensive, to put a regular switch in a convenient place inside the trailer and a note of its function in the manual. I suspect this is not a condition that is unique to the R-Pod nor to FR, but pervades the industry. So, given the horizontal orientation of the breaker, in a strict sense, there is only one switch for the hot water heater and it's concealed in the lower left corner of the outside access to the heater behind tubing that supplies gas to the burner assembly. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 6:37pm
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Come on my friend.
If that ain't legal talk I don't know what is. Done with this post. It is a switch, it quacks my friend, it's a duck. Mine says WH on it. This is stupid. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 7:10pm
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No, Mike, putting in an unlabeled circuit breaker that is supposed to function as a switch, is what is stupid. Personally, I could give a flying fig if the breaker is sideways or vertical, but when it isn't labeled and no one bothers to tell the user what it's for, well, that's a horse of a different color. It would have been easy to alert the user to the two "switches" for the electric heater element in the manual, but in the one I have, it ain't there. I suspect there has been more than one heating element unnecessarily burned up because of the lack of this information. Please note, that I suggested that a "better" design would be to put a labeled switch. Yours had it at the breaker. Mind didn't. It's as simple as that. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 7:18pm
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That is a good answer and you are correct mine is labeled. I also took the time to understand how my stuff is powered. End of the day, you are probably right and we're back to being status quo, it is a simple issue. Thanks for your patience and mine too. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: DavMar
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 7:44pm
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I solved this problem by installing a separate covered, so I can't accidentally trip it on or off, switch on the hot wire going to the water heater switch. Which means I can now leave the little switch on the water heater itself always on and control power into the heater by this extra switch I installed. I'm kind of surprised that FR doesn't provide this switch inside the Pod but makes you fiddle with the flimsy latch outside and prone to fail switch when you want to use shore power.
------------- Dave & Marlene J with Zoey the wonder dog. 2017 Rpod 180 2016 Toyota Tacoma SR5 4x4 Lexington, NC |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 7:47pm
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Thanks, Mike. My original post was to alert those who were unaware of the situation and had been misinformed by the dealer. For myself, I this is the first travel trailer I have ever owned and I'll probably never sell it until I'm old and feeble [and feeble is the operative term as I'm already old]. I've gone through a learning curve with the trailer over the 2 years I've owned it, as I did with my sailboat.
At first I hired out all the repairs, but being retired and living on a budget, in addition to enjoying tinkering on the trailer, I've realized that there is little maintenance I can't do. Now it's a question of learning the systems step by step, as issues come up. A lot of the things I have learned along the way have been though this board and I'm the first to say that I have a lot more to learn. I have taken the time to learn most of the systems, but there are some, such as the suspension, that I have not dived into yet. Yes, I understand simple drum brakes and can fix them if I need to, but I've not messed with them on the trailer, opting, instead, to have my mechanic take a look at them when he repacked the bearings. I watch the repack, so probably next time I'll do it my self. ...and my brake shoes were and drums were in very good shape. Hopefully in this thread, people who were unaware of the situation learned something useful and will enjoy these wonderful little trailers more. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: Richand Cindy
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2018 at 8:37pm
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Not all circuit breakers are labeled. If you research this board over the years people have posted asking for a copy of the sheet that FR glues to the circuit breaker board because they are missing theirs. We were amazed that our Keystone TT has two heater switches on the switch panel (not circuit breaker panel). One says propane water heater and the other electric water heater. We find this a great improvment to the RPOD as we flick both switches on to quickly get heat and then shut off the electric to just maintain heat or we keep both switches on if we are taking back to back showers and need the faster recovery time when both sources are used to heat the water. ------------- OLD 2017.5 RPOD 180 + 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk NEW: 2018 Passport Elite 23RB + 2017 Ram 1500 Diesel |
Posted By: Pod People
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 5:11pm
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To add further confusion............. I have a 2015 179. As far as I can tell, there is NO electrical switch to turn on/off the electric element for the water heater. There is no switch in the water heater compartment like I had in my old 2009 173. I haven’t seen any switch in the bath area. The only electrical switch that I have found is the #5 circuit breaker. There is a rocker switch on the wall panel along with the water pump switch, but it is for the gas to the water heater if I am not mistaken. If I am wrong,please correct me so I can learn. Thank you Vann ------------- Vann & Laura 2015 RPod 179 https://postimg.cc/0zwKrfB9"> 
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Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 5:16pm
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Vann, check good at the water heater, that switch is part of the WH not a FR installed switch. I have yet to see one without it. You are correct in that the wall/shower switch is the propane switch, nothing new there. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2018 at 7:42pm
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Van, Mike correctly points out that the switch on the exterior part of the water heater is a Suburban appliance switch. FR apparently hasn't installed any other switches except the circuit breaker for the water heater circuit in the WFCO AC/DC panel. The breaker is labeled SWD so it can be flipped on and off without undue wear and a a practical matter it isn't going to get a heck of a lot of use over the life of the trailer. But it appears that often the breaker is not labeled and for many of us, we are not accustomed to using breakers as switches. Dave and I both reached the same solution and added a switch in the water heater circuit, between the breaker and the water heater. He didn't say where he mounted his switch but for mine, I mounted it in the compartment where the water heater and furnace are located and clearly labeled it. I also labeled all the breaker circuits. We each put some kind of protection on the switch so that it wouldn't be accidentally flipped. My plan is to keep the water heater breaker turned off just to make the system idiot proof. I can see myself getting distracted by the thought of bacon, blackberry pie, or some other delightful topic and absentmindedly flipping the switch. As long as the breaker is off, it's no problem. Otherwise, I'm back to putting a new heating element in. I can say, from the looks of the heating element I took out, it had been energized for a very long time and had begun to function as an alternate anode rod. I suspect the prior owner had never turned the switch or breaker off since it was new. For myself, I'm a bit surprised that FR doesn't at least put something in the manual to explain the situation, but I have to say I have only seen the manual that came with my 2009 Pod and that was one so generic that it fit pretty much all FR trailers. Maybe in later iterations, they spelled it out a little better so that the ordinary lay person could understand the issue. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: DavMar
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 1:35pm
Fred, I mounted this switch on the left side below the bed next to the electrical wall outlet located there. It's a simple on/off light switch mounted in a extended exterior outlet box (I guess that's what its called?) that has a protective cover that has to be lifted to turn the switch off or on. The wiring is simple run to the a junction box that's on the outside of the Suburban water heater that breaks the run from the circuit breaker to the heater switch. It's really a simple mod that anyone with a little electrical knowledge can do. It eliminated having any chance of the outside water heater door latch breaking from opening and closing it and the problem I've read about people having with the electrical switch on the water heater failing. Now I just leave that switch on at all times and operate the electric on/off from the switch I put inside. ------------- Dave & Marlene J with Zoey the wonder dog. 2017 Rpod 180 2016 Toyota Tacoma SR5 4x4 Lexington, NC |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 1:49pm
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Dave, sounds like you used a better system of protection than I did for the switch. I'm cheap. I used a piece of plumber's tape [the stuff with the holes in it] and fashioned a guard over the household light switch lever. Since it's hidden in the compartment with the water heater, it's not likely that anyone will get at it. I got the idea for the guard from the emergency on/off switch for our boiler in our New Jersey heating system. Indeed, anyone with a little electrical knowledge could install such a switch. Heck, it's so easy that even a lawyer could do it. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 2:24pm
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My apologies if perhaps I am restarting an argument but I don't get why one would need triple redundant switches in series (the cb, the switch on the water heater, and a third switch somewhere else) for the same heating element? This is a travel trailer not a NASA spacecraft..... ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: Pod People
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 2:33pm
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Mccarter and lostagain—- I am familiar with the suburban electrical switch that is supposed to be located in the water heater exterior panel. I had the same water heater with a switch in my 173. However, believe it or not, there is no switch in the exterior water heater compartment in my 2015 179. I have looked multiple times, even pulling off the warning stickers to check behind there is no switch. So, I guess I have no choice except to use the circuit breaker to control the power. No problem, I can deal with that. I just thought it would add to the confusion.... er, conversation. Vann ------------- Vann & Laura 2015 RPod 179 https://postimg.cc/0zwKrfB9">
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Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 3:41pm
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offgrid, look at it from the point of view of the lay user. You are an engineer who is very knowledgeable about this stuff. MCarter, also is a very knowledgeable person who knows what to look for. For the lay person looking behind gas piping under the gas valve in a hard to open outside access panel is not intuitive. Suburban had to put a switch somewhere as a back up to the coach switch, so the stuck it where it was close to the wires and likely easy to install in the manufacturing process. But the reality is that most users don't know it's there or about the need to use it. And, as was pointed out, the access door is hard to open and the locking mechanism is a spring waiting to break, and, in conformity with Murphy's law, at the worst possible moment. The breaker is, as Mike and I agree, a "switch" in the technical sense. It is designated, as I previously noted, SWP so it can be used repeatedly as would any regular switch. [Though in a very technical sense it violates the NEC, but that's the least of our worries.] The problem is with using breakers for switching the water heater off and on is that: 1, most people are not accustomed to using breakers as of and on switches; 2, the breaker is not necessarily labeled; 3, its in an awkward location where it is easy to accidentally flip if you happen to be turning off or on other breakers; 4, there is a switch for the gas system inside the trailer in a convenient location and many are confused about it's function [i.e. the dealer who told me it operated all the hot water heating functions - kind of like "Automatic" mode on some refrigerators that selects gas, battery or AC.]; 5, the cost of putting a switch -- that yes is redundant -- in a convenient spot is minimal and would be much more understandable to the ordinary user. So, yes, such a switch is triple redundant, but so is the thermostatic switch for my furnace in the house. There is no reason [except the NEC orientation requirement] that I couldn't go out in the snow to turn off and on my furnace or boiler [actually boilers have a required 3rd redundant switch usually painted red] instead of operating it from the convenience of my nice warm hallway thermostat and off/on switch there (more redundancy) or going into my garage or basement to turn it off an on there at the furnace. Yes, from a technical person's point of view the redundancy is overkill, but from the lay person's point of view, or what we call in my biz the "ordinary and reasonable user," a clearly marked easy to find and operate, and inexpensive to install, switch may be more sensible. Ford Motor company learned this the hard way in order to save $15.40. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 3:49pm
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lostagain,
I'm fine with what you did, in a way I can understand wanting a switch in the circuit. My CB I turn on once, when the WH has water. And I don't turn it on, when not camping. Camp On. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: mcarter
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 4:01pm
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Pod People,
I believe you. I looked thru manual and can't find a water heater (in a Pod) that does not have the element switch. You can add a switch like Dave and Fred. ------------- Mike Carter 2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 4:04pm
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Lostagain, thanks for the explanation, makes sense to me. I'm very used to turning breakers on and off both in my personal and professional life, but most people probably aren't. As you might know from some of my other posts, I'm usually a stickler for the NEC, I was one of the original authors of Article 690 (the PV section). There is good reason for 99% of what's in there, although sometimes its there to address the lowest common denominator. One of the sections I ignored when I rewired a house back in the early oughts was the arc fault breaker section for bedrooms which was new that year. The code ended up being ahead of the technology and my ceiling fans tripped the arc fault breakers. Either the new arc fault code section had to go or my ceiling fans, so I chose the code. Actually you raise a good point about the thermostat being yet another switching device. If you look at the circuit diagram for the ac side of the water heater, you are now the proud owner of five series connected switches in that circuit. There are both a thermostat and an overtemp switch in line with that heating element as well as the 3 switches we've been discussing... ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 5:43pm
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offgrid, good point. There are even more switches. That thermostat box, light tan on mine and about 2"x3", with a round thingy (a legal term, not an engineering term) has even more switching function since it turns the heating system off and on by temperature. How do you adjust it since there's no dial or digital readout? Re the NEC, yes, some of it's there to prevent people from sticking their tongues on a frozen lamp post. To use an over used cliché, at the end of the day, the users manual should adequately explain the switching systems for the hot water heater and it doesn't. Strictly speaking, the rocker switch on the water heater and the breaker should be enough, but only if they were well explained and the user was advised that the electric and gas functions are as different as a ......[I was going to put in some names of political parties, but out of respect for our very wise no politics policy] ....fish and a house cat. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: offgrid
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2018 at 6:00pm
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Lostagain, lets for sure stay of politics. As to tstat adjustment, you are 100% correct, there is none, on either the propane or ac side, which in my opinion is ridiculous. For that reason, I added a real adjustable digital thermostat (all of $10 from Amazon) on the propane side, which I have a post on. I hated the water waste from our little 30 gallon tanks while fiddling with the hot and cold shower valves so now the temp is exactly where I (actually where my wife  ) wants it right out of the hot tap. As I'm never on ac unless plugged in at home I didn't bother with doing the ac side, but it could be done I'm sure. ------------- 1994 Chinook Concourse 1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |