There are so many mods and pictures, it's hard to keep everything straight. I'm looking to buy a new Rpod 190 this winter, and this is what I want up near the hitch.

The power tongue jack

2 propane tanks

A two battery locking battery box

2 lithium ion batteries

a generator stand

http://flic.kr/p/MxDDAP - http://flic.kr/p/MxDDAP

 Is this doable?

greetings

I fabricated a frame out of angle iron for mounting 2 tanks.  I bought a tank cover and made the frame so the tanks would fit under the cover. I copied the mounting used by most RV's and put a dual tank regulator  between the tanks.   I installed a power jack, and a group 27 battery.  It did add about 60 pounds to the hitch weight.  I agree LI Ion batteries just cost way to much.  I do a fair amount of dry camping and use a Honda inverter generator that I have been using for about 12 years or so.

Crankster78 R-179  2015 

In my opinion anything is possible if you put your mind to it. I have 2 batteries, 2 LP tanks, spare tire, electrical cords, water hoses, tools and other odds and ends up front. Generator rides in the back.

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The Battleborn Li 100AH 12V batteries many people buy only weigh 29 lbs so two of those would still weigh less than what one golf cart battery weighs. Cost is about $950 each so for sure spendy but considering you can use all their capacity and they ought to last the life of the trailer maybe not so bad. You will need to change or modify your charger too.

I currently have dual golf cart batts and a single propane tank on my 179 and with full loading and fresh water I'm at 570 lbs tongue weight. With dual tanks and two lithium batts on the 190 (which looks like it is a little heavier up front)  you should still be about the same as I am.  

That leaves the generator. A question on that. What were you planning to get and why permanently mount it? You will almost certainly have significant noise and vibration that way. If you get something like a Honda EU2200I or equivalent you can run everything in the trailer (but not all at once). You would need an easy start device in the air conditioner, not a big deal to install. The Honda only weighs about 50 lbs. I just keep mine in the TV with a 100ft extension cord and move it to where it will be the least noisy for myself and my neighbors. 

If you're planning to do all those power system mods you must be planning a lot of boondocking trips. May I suggest you also consider adding some solar to your setup?  It wouldn't run the air conditioner but it would reduce or maybe even eliminate the generator run time in cooler conditions. If you're going this far you might also consider a 12V to 120Vac inverter to run any other ac loads you might want from the lithium batteries. Saves having to crank up the genny to microwave some evening popcorn! A 2kw inverter should probably do it.  

Have fun!

That is my plan when I convert over the Lithium this winter on my trailer. 

anmam did a great post on this forum earlier this year on his conversion. I believe he bought a Li Ion charger board from Progressive Dynamics and used it to modify his WFCO. He also used the Battleborn battery IIRC.  

In all seriousness, the GVW difference doesn't appear to make any sense.  Looks like there is no margin of safety in the capacity of the 179; indeed its axle capacity is exceeded.  Makes me glad I have a feather light 172, with more things removed than added.  At least there is a pretty good margin of safety with the stock axle.

My 179 weighs in at about 3900 lbs loaded. But 570 lbs is on the tongue not the axle, so that gives 3330 on the axle. But then when I put about 600 lbs tension on the 30 inch bars of the wd hitch to reduce the TV rear axle loading I generate 1500 ft lbs of moment which is balanced by about 120 lbs additional load being transferred to the trailer axle. So now I'm at 3450 on the axle. So not exceeded but dang close, and that's not counting the weight imbalance between the driver and passenger sides. 

And that's why I want to invest in a heavier axle....

In my case, my current thought is to move to 24V when I go to Li Ion to reduce copper costs and weight and voltage losses running the big loads (the air conditioner mostly) so I'd need a different charger anyhow.  I'll probably go with one of the 3kw bidirectional inverter/chargers. 

For the OP, the battery management system in the Battleborn battery apparently won't allow charging at batt temps below 25F. I think probably all Li Ion batteries are going to be like that.  So if you know you'll never use the pod in those kind of conditions you can leave them on the tongue as you were thinking, otherwise it would probably be better to keep them in the heated space somewhere.  Or go with lead acid batteries as others on this thread have suggested. 

We are hitting the road tommorow for points south, I have made some changes on the front.

Power jack came as ordered.

Ordered a second battery box and mounted it next to the first. There is just room to get both lids on and off. Bought some light chain. Attached one end to the frame closest to battery box, same on otherside.

In the middle of each lid I drilled a .250 hole and inserted a 1/4" bolt with washers securing the lid from being lost. And preventing the chain from moving. In the middle a Padlock, making sure both sides are as tight as possible.

Now you could still get into it, but it will take longer, and make some noise.

Left over chain made a loop through propane tank carry handle, down around frame and padlocked.

Padlocks were 3 from Harbor frienght, keyed alike. So I only need 1 additional key on my ring. 3rd one is on the hitch lock.

I have a second propape tank that does double duty. If my first runs out it is a spare. It also feeds a small gass grill and a Mr Buddy heater. It is currently in the back of my TV strapped down on my 4 wheel wagon hauler.

I think pretty much everyone finds their own level of "comfort" especially when it comes to loss prevention. I feel pretty good about starting this adventure with the choices I have made, but circumstances may change my mind over time.

Total costs for my up front mods are pretty low. 11$for chain, maybe 10 for the padlocks.

Originally posted by JJT Lostagain. I am thinking of purchasing the solar panel option on my new r pod and it comes with a controller and 1000W inverter.  But I live in cloudy midwest so do you think I will get any real benefit from such expensive equipment?

What do you describe as expensive? A 100 watt panel and a solar controller should only be a couple hundred bucks 300 tops. That will do a fine job of topping up your battery/ies in the summer time all the way up to the 40th parallel or so. Of course clouds will affect that to some extent. Don't expect to "operate" on the solar panel, think of it as more of a trickle charger.

That 1000 watt inverter is another thing altogether. It has the potential of draining your battery/ies in a few minutes if you start actually putting a 1000 watt load on it. Plus it will have to be located really close to the battery/ies with some rather large gauge wire. If you're only going to be charging a laptop or phone on it, that is one thing, but don't expect to run a microwave or toaster for very long.

It is apparently a "modified sine wave" inverter. From looking at some test results on Youtube, it appears that microwaves run at lower power levels on this type of inverter than on true sine wave ones. And make a less heat (and more noise). So we might have the same convection/microwaves after all. Mine is a Highpointe EC028BNC-S if I read it correctly.  1500 watt rated. 

Not a big deal as most people boondocking will have a couple hundred amp hours of battery anyway. 

i agree with you that there are DC solutions for most of the other loads which even if you have an inverter are more efficient. 

Hey offgrid! Thanks replying and for posting the Youtube video regarding pure and modified sine inverters. Very educational and I enjoy the issues it poses. Once again, if I only knew then what I know now. My inverter was cannibalized from another solar project so no $ spent. Good recommendation to avoid modified and buy pure sine inverters. 

I do not get the noise/buzz from my HighPoint Microwave EC028KD7 using a modified sine inverter. The video conclusion of 10% to 20% less efficient and performance using a modified sine inverter does not bother my casual use case as things get warm within the time I expect and I’m not toasting my batteries. I suspect FR changes Microwave suppliers from time to time.

I agree, serious microwaving of frozen foods, longer cooking, etc. where microwave time is going more than 10-15 minutes is out of scope and going above 1000w of 110v for any period of time gets into all sorts of issues of larger batteries, cables. Thus, going to genset does make more sense. 

Undeterred by failure and costly mistakes, I’m compelled to try things. Thanks again for the discussion.

Glad you're willing to try things, I've found out where they hide the smoke in electrical equipment too many times by now I guess.  Please do keep a fire extinguisher handy though when you get compelled to try stuff,  I've had to use one more than once over the years.  

You have made me curious as to why your microwave runs on a 1200 watt inverter. It's also rated 1500 watts as mine is. Ironically, from looking at that video, I think the answer is that you are using a modified sine wave inverter which the micro doesn't really like and that drops the power requirement down enough to be within range of your inverter. But do keep an eye on the inverter for signs of overheating....

I doubt that the 750 watts you're seeing on the inverter display is accurate though, you'd be seeing really really long warming times. Something more like the 1000 watts shown on the kill-a-watt meter in that video is more likely. It becomes tricky to measure ac power accurately when the voltage and current waveforms have strange (non-sinusoidal) shapes.  Do you have a dc current clamp on to measure DC current into the inverter, that's what really counts anyway?

 

I hate when the blue smoke genie gets out! . It's all but impossible to get him back in the box. I do my testing in a barn on a concrete floor with not much around, fire extinguisher near, so safety is always on the mind, especially with voltage. An enjoyable moment for me is when I get a "Gee, that did not fail!" result. Using a microwave is a minor event while camping so my interest this topic is more academic. I would have expected my 1200w inverter to have failed, or batteries to drain faster than they did when I plugged in my HighPoint 1500w microwave. I was thinking I would have to run it on a lower cooking rate, like P7 instead of P10 and wondered where that threshold would be. But it didn't fail. Hmmmm.

I'm not an EE and still Googleing GlueGuys concepts to understand them. I hope to get some college credit at some point. I don't have the tester to measure DC pull off the battery and I see that would be a better test. But, I have calculated the power rate of consumption and the % discharged of the batteries and they are close with some degree of rounding. The microwave works and heats things up so something is happening. Per GlueBuys comments, I believe the answer is beyond by observation. Still observing...

Maybe this discussion warrants a new thread as this thread is about TT tongue...just want to be respectful to the original post.

When the voltage and current waveforms are out of phase the true power being absorbed my the load is lower that the va. This is not an appearance of lower wattage, power consumed really is lower. Reactive power (VARs) are not true power.  so while you are correct that if the voltage and current waveforms are out of phase the true power (watts) reading will be lower than the VA reading, its the watts reading we want. We don't really care about va or reactive power other than it will cause some secondary heating in the inverter and microwave and the conductors between the two. BTW, modern microwaves apparently look pretty much like resistive loads, so should require very litting reactive power. 

That being said, we also have the issue here that with a "modified sine wave" inverter we don't have sinusoidal waveforms anyhow. So it depends if your power meter is set up to measure only power in the primary (60Hz) frequency (like the old fashioned rotating disc electric meters are) or measures power flow in the higher harmonics. This is one reason why power companies are installing "smart" meters as fast as they can. With so many loads using switching power supplies nowadays the old disc meters "miss out" on measuring power drawn in the higher harmonics. Lost revenue for them!

I installed a 500kW grid tied PV system on a Whole Food store and couldn't at first figure out where 15% of my expected solar power output went to. Turned out the refrigeration gear in the supermarket was creating tons of higher harmonic noise which the filters in the inverter absorbed trying to clean up the line voltage waveform (PV grid tie inverters must meet ridiculously stringent specs for harmonic noise).  I had a GE smart meter on the system which came initially set up to measure true power in all harmonics, so I just reprogrammed it to measure only true power in the primary frequency, problem solved! 

Anyhow, all this is why I'm suggesting measuring dc current into the inverter, which is what really matters to us anyway.