My adding inverter plans - Pls review and comment
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Topic: My adding inverter plans - Pls review and comment
Posted By: Blender Bob
Subject: My adding inverter plans - Pls review and comment
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2018 at 10:03am
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Have new 2018 Rpod 178 with 2 deep cycle batteries (~150-180amps) and 120W solar charger. Goal is to dry camp and have 15min microwave per day, TV, and run my blender. (Nothing beats a frozen margarita after long day hiking in the sun!) No A/C or 110 Hot water, converter usage. I plan to added a Powerjack 12000W peak 3000W LF Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter. By opening Rpod 110 circuit breakers, I can control what pulls 110v power in the RV. With proper 12v cables, I plan to have the inverter in the front storage area and use a 20a to 30a plug and existing 30amp cable to bring inverter power to the R-pod external plug. Inverter is on only when needed and storage doors are open to allow air for cooling. Thoughts? Comments? Thanks! URL to Inverter: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071RV7DWT/?coliid=I1J831L6YIO9L5&colid=NZFFQLHCHF5H&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it ------------- Bob 2015 Chevy Colorado Z71 2018 178 R-pod Hood River Edition |
Replies:
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2018 at 11:29am
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If you can make it work, more power to you. I seriously doubt your measley 150-180A even with your 120W solar would be sufficient. Is that the capacity or 50% of the capacity of the batteries? You don't want to discharge deeper than that or you risk damaging your batteries. Upgrade to a bank of Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries at double or triple the capacity and it might be doable. Lithium batteries can be discharged much deeper without damaging them. You would be better off getting a minimum 2000W generator for what you propose. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: TheBum
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2018 at 11:37am
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I agree with StephenH. The AC and the microwave are the two devices that aren't practical to run from an inverter. Not only do you have to worry about drain on the batteries, but you'd also have to use huge wire to run that much current. 1500W for the microwave is 125A from the batteries to the inverter, not including inversion losses. ------------- Alan 2022 R-Pod 196 "RaptoRPod" 2022 Ram 1500 Lone Star 4x4 Three cats |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2018 at 12:38pm
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Agree. The amount of current required to run an inverter at 1500 watts is enormous, and would require humongous wires to support. Just 1500 watts would draw 125 amps. If you should happen to put a 3000 watt load on it, it would go to 250 amps. Now you're talking about welding cables. Even a 1500 watt load would deplete your 150 AH batteries (if you have two of them) in less than an hour. The usable capacity of TWO 150 AH is about 1800 watt-hours. That means you can run 1800 watts for 1 hour, and then you are done. ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2018 at 12:49pm
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I agree with all the above. Fifteen minutes of the 1500W microwave would be about
31AH at 12V which is just shy of what you could expect from your 100W
solar panels in a full day of sun. For your use I would recommend a 2KW generator such as the Honda or Yamaha units. If you're set on an inverter I suggest you consider hard mounting it in the TV and connecting it with short #4 or #2 copper wires. Think jumper cables. Then you could run the engine for your 15 minutes. The blender might be doable on a smaller inverter but you might have to use the LP appliances instead of the micro for heating. The stove will boil a lot of water and fry a lot of bacon on two 20lb tanks. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: texman
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2018 at 2:26pm
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premix and freeze the margs in the pod freezer and cook on the stovetop or charcoal grill. That sounds like a lot of work for 15 minutes in the nuke box and a blender.
------------- TexMan 2015 182g 2018 Sequoia http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9122&title=texman-182g-mods - TexManMods |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2018 at 3:11pm
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If it's just margaritas you're after, then consider a 12v. blender. Check the marine supplies. Boaters really like their margaritas too, especially when anchored off the coast of Zihuatanejo. Here's a sample: https://www.roadtechmarine.com.au/12v-mini-blender/p/TCC502 ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2018 at 6:44pm
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Nothing much to add -- if solar is your only means of recharging your batteries you're going to be SOL after one cloudy day. I have and really like the Yamaha 2400iSHC. You can spend less but you can't get much quieter. It runs my air con and microwave, but not at the same time. For what you'd spend on that inverter, you can have power anytime for not a whole lot more. If you don't care about the noise you can get a generator for a good bit less than that inverter. And you will have to spend some bucks on cables. Listen to what folks here say. I really don't think you'll be happy with that size inverter for very long. TT ------------- 2010 176 FJ Cruiser |
Posted By: Blender Bob
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2018 at 9:55am
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Thank everyone for your posts. I appreciate all info and perspectives. Your comments confirm some of my suspicions: 1) Battery draw down needs to be managed to not kill the batteries. I will need to test / experiment where my 50% or 10.5v threshold will be. 2) Power draw management. The microwave is the biggest draw. Usage is not so much full meal cooking but heating leftovers / cooking a hotdog or warming a breakfast burrito. It also has 10 power settings, I can run at 50 to 75% and see what that means to 12v amps use rate. 3) I have 2awg wire in the barn to use so if I keep things below 1500w I should be good. 4) Account ~90% inverter efficiency. 5) My panels can put back 40 to 50amp hrs / day (Utah desert sun) so starting with a full charge and with a little thought, I think the solution can last for a few days, which will be mission accomplished. So I'm gonna try and will report back. I am compelled to try as part of my nature. Really don't want a generator, and if I can make this work, it will be so cool! Por que no?! Besides, this will keep me in the barn and out of trouble with ranch headquarters. :-) Thanks again everyone! ------------- Bob 2015 Chevy Colorado Z71 2018 178 R-pod Hood River Edition |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2018 at 11:42am
Battery voltage must be measured unloaded and after a resting period. If you get to 10.5V under these conditions your battery is totally dead and probably damaged. Most sources indicate 50% SOC is 11.9-12.0V. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2018 at 3:39pm
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12v is a half dead battery. 10.5v is battery that IS being damaged. and it's not just draw down point.. The draw rate counts for a whole lot of potential damage also. and then there is that old Peukert effect, that tells us that the FASTER you draw down a battery, the more resistance and heat is produced, both damaging the battery AND reducing it's actual, usable capacity. ------------- |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2018 at 3:45pm
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+1 to what furpod said. There are some differences, depending on whether the battery is wet, gel, or AGM. The wet can do initially higher current (usually), and some AGM batteries can be drawn down to ~~ 40% or so. But the voltage is not linear with respect to SOC (State of Charge), and the higher you draw from them, the more it will impact the life. IOW, you could draw at 500 milliamps, and get 110% of the watt-hours, or you can draw at 120 amps and only get 75% of the watt-hours. High amps=short life.
------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: Keith-N-Dar
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2018 at 4:22pm
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The OP needs empirical data on this issue. With many people the need is to try and learn from the results. He is not likely to ham himself with his test, so at this point the discussion is moot.
------------- Keith-N-Dar Boris & Betty (Boston Terriers) 2011 R-Pod 177 2010 Ford F-150 |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2018 at 4:37pm
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If cost is acceptable, ditch the lead-acid batteries and go with lithium iron phosphate batteries. Prices are not quite as astronomical as they used to be and LiFePo4 batteries can be drained deeper and faster than Pb-acid batteries without damaging them. That might make all the difference in whether this is a success or failure. I am curious though to see if the OP can make it work. I have a couple of small inverters--nothing big enough to even think of running the microwave. ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2018 at 5:03pm
Well.. at the proposed draw rates, there is in fact a fair danger of fire.. but yeah, in the long run, many people have a need to do things.. me included..  ------------- |
Posted By: voisj
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2018 at 11:27am
Blender Bob, Here is my experience with what you are doing. I Had a 2000w/3000w inverter that I ran in my truck , ,F250 diesel with two optima batteries, I used it on the back forty to build fences, corrals and a barn, Used it for a 13 amp worm drive saw and a 15 amp roto hammer. It would work for about an hour and then I would have to run my truck and then I could go all day. Generator would have made more sense. I sold the truck and since I had it laying around I put it in the pod, I had 100w solar and 2 12volt batteries, Have since gone to 2 6-volt). The wife wanted to run a hair dryer (rarely), and I thought occasional use of the microwave, blender, tv and such would be nice. It worked well for the small stuff but drained the two 12 volts really fast with the microwave or Hair dryer (1875w) I took it out I ended up getting a 3000w inverter generator, Which we rarely use and is really quiet. IMHO you would really need 4 6-volt golf cart batteries and more than 200w of solar, to make this work the microwave and keep it charged up for an extended stay. It's not really worth it when you could just fire up a genny for a few minutes and get 'er done. I do realize that new, or soon to be, battery/solar/equipment technology can make this feasible because there are some really cool things being done in really $$$$ all electric campervans and trailers. But i do understand the need to play with the idea!!!! rgds John ------------- http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9426&title=slopod-180-mods-johnsue - SLOPODMODS John&Sue,SLO,CA 2016 180 HRE, 2013 F150 Eco Boost 
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Posted By: Olddawgsrule
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2018 at 4:47pm
Lithium Ion batteries are the way of the future in my mind and will change over as soon as I find the right dealer/manufacture to buy from. Currently find Littokala as being as described and well priced. Still too expensive to go 'all the way'. Maybe during their November sale... ------------- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJduGeZNFgtptH67leItRFQ - Byways no Highways 2017 Tacoma http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72408 - Truck Camper Build 2004 F150 My Overlander |
Posted By: Keith-N-Dar
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2018 at 6:24pm
I am sure the OP knows that the wiring from the battery to the inverter needs to be ap[ropriately fused to prevent the wires from burning. If not he should forget the entire project. ------------- Keith-N-Dar Boris & Betty (Boston Terriers) 2011 R-Pod 177 2010 Ford F-150 |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2018 at 6:56pm
At those rates of discharge, the battery itself can "overheat". again, the higher the discharge rate, the higher the internal resistance of the battery itself. ------------- |
Posted By: Blender Bob
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2018 at 7:30pm
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Thanks Voisj for your story and suggestions. In time, I believe more battery capability solves a lot of problems. And, managing demand is equally important. On the Colorado plateau, no hair dryer needed. With desert air, you can dry off from a shower with a bandana and your hair is dry before the first beer is gone. Cheers, B.Bob ------------- Bob 2015 Chevy Colorado Z71 2018 178 R-pod Hood River Edition |
Posted By: Blender Bob
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2018 at 7:43pm
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With caution and keeping draw levels low, I set out to do some testing on just what does the R-Pod microware pull when on. First found thing I found when I used the F.R. 30a cable to take power from my test inverter to the R-Pod, was in immediate alarm from the inverter. Contacting Whistler inverter company, support there mentions that the RV probably has ground connected to white wire which signals a short to the inverter. His suggestion is to use a 2 prong plug and not 3 on the cable. Doing more research, I find a lot of discussion about grounding vs grounded: i.e. grounding boats and RVs is different. I believe the R-pod is wired for land/shore power via it power cord and trailer input. Powering via an isolated inverted w/o a true earth ground is a different story. More info in here: https://www.civicsolar.com/support/installer/articles/electrical-grounding-boats-and-rvs After much more reading, i felt comfortable using a 3 to 2 prong plug to exit the inverter and into the RV cable -- and now the RV is taking power from inverter. Yaay! I have all the circuit breakers open there is no demand. Next is to test the pull of the Microwave. ------------- Bob 2015 Chevy Colorado Z71 2018 178 R-pod Hood River Edition |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2018 at 7:49pm
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When I was young and stupid, and also in the army... I had the occasion to remove the batteries from a military jeep, which is a 24V system (two 12V batteries in series). Not knowing the "correct" sequence, I put an open end wrench on the positive terminals of one of the batteries. Well, it was very secure, so I had to put some muscle into it. When it broke loose, it made direct contact with the frame of the seat (both batteries were under one of the front seats). It took less than 1 second for that wrench to become cherry red and too hot to touch. It took less than 2 seconds to completely destroy that battery. It was also very obviously destroyed, as it was swollen in all 6 directions (up, down, north, south, east, and west) and smoking. I don't know how many amps that wrench was carrying, but it was toast too. Zero to toast in 2 seconds. Hey! That's Tesla acceleration!  ------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: CharlieM
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2018 at 8:57pm
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bp, Your experience is exactly why we disconnect the negative of the battery first. Glad you weren't holding the wrench firmly. ------------- Charlie Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
Posted By: GlueGuy
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2018 at 9:03pm
------------- bp 2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
Posted By: voisj
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2018 at 10:20pm
If you liked that story I have 1 more for you. While travelling in Death Valley a few weeks ago, I ran into a guy wintering there from Alaska. He had built his own mini trailer about 12' long and He had 6 ( or 8?) of these (I think it was these) 6 volt 428 amp hour batteries,  http://www.ecodirect.com/Surrette-S-550-6V-428-p/surrette-s-550-d.htm - http://www.ecodirect.com/Surrette-S-550-6V-428-p/surrette-s-550-d.htm and a 600+ watt solar set up on the roof. His furnace and water heater (Tankless) were the only gas items He had, everything else was electric including his induction cooktop. He even had a small window type A/C unit to keep it cool, And it worked well. @ $370 apiece It seems steep, but it can be done, I've seen it. What if you just had 2?, you may be able to make Margaritas and power up the microwave occasionally? I think for $700 two of these may be good for a serious boondocker. Cheers John
------------- http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9426&title=slopod-180-mods-johnsue - SLOPODMODS John&Sue,SLO,CA 2016 180 HRE, 2013 F150 Eco Boost
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Posted By: Tars Tarkas
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2018 at 9:10am
Maybe the lesson is that anything is possible but at just 6 of these batteries, an inverter, a 400w solar system, that's roughly $2200 for batteries, $270 for an inverter, $500 for the solar, and at least $100 for wire, connectors and other doodads, you're north of $3000. At 123 pounds each, just the batteries are 738 pounds.... If you want to spend the winter in Death Valley and you want to spend that much on electricity, okay. You still have to deal with water, sewage, trash, food, etc., so it's not like you're totally self-suffient on site though. Whatever floats your boat. This doesn't seem like a very practical way to go, especially in terms of versatility. Death Valley gets a lot of sun. Pods have wheels, so they are meant to travel to many locations, not all of which have a lot of consistent sun. For a lot less, a relatively quiet generator works rain or shine, night or day (except quiet hours). Of course Blender Bob isn't talking about an induction stove top so he won't have to spend this much money. If he can make it work, great. The versatility of a generator is still hard to beat in my opinion. I have a 100w solar system I take when I'm going somewhere sunny. I leave it at home if I'm going to, say, the Smokies. Shade is nice in the summer. TT ------------- 2010 176 FJ Cruiser |
Posted By: Blender Bob
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 12:24pm
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My final test! With a 1200Watt inverter hooked up, I fired up the microwave that came with my 178 to find out that no matter what setting: Popcorn, Beverage, P10 power, the highest draw was 660 to 680 watts off the inverter. What a surprise since the device is rated for 1500 watts. Note: I am NOT using the grill or convection oven. This solves a lot of problems!! So with my two marine 12v DC24 batteries, I get approx. 18 min of microwave and stayed above 56% battery level. That’s easy instructions to measure. And, there’s plenty of power to run my blender for frozen margaritas enough to blind most of my camping comrades. Add to this solution, my 120W solar can put back ~25% of my total battery capacity per day, so with a little monitoring all can go well for days of dry camping. Summary things I learned: 1) Manage demand, this is not a shore power solution. Try to stay below inverter power of 1200w to keep from using giant battery cables. 2) Use a 3 to 2 prong 110v adapter to remove the 3 prong ground from the inverter – address grounded / grounding. 3) Test your intended demand as it may be different than you think. 4) Watch resting battery voltage and stay above 12.25v to length battery life, but if a deep cycle demand is needed, well you get a few dozen before it’s new battery time. So why not! Thanks everyone for your comments! ------------- Bob 2015 Chevy Colorado Z71 2018 178 R-pod Hood River Edition |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 12:43pm
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Glad to know you are going to enjoy your margaritas. We make them with hand crushed chunky ice so only muscle power is needed. The key to a good margarita, good tequila and fresh lime juice and the right amount of Contreau or triple sec. No cheap tequila and no margarita mix. My personal favorite is Herradura Reposada, but it's really better just to drink straight. But sip it and savor it like a good Irish whisky. ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: furpod
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 12:50pm
It's a lot to go through.. considering perfection is reached with 3 fingers of good bourbon and 2 pieces of ice... https://postimg.cc/image/zcm7723ml/">  ------------- |
Posted By: Blender Bob
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 1:00pm
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Aaahh! So true, so true! If I was only closer to KY. Makes me want to pack up and head out. Agreed, can't go cheap. No marg mixers. I use Don Julio blanca and Grand Marnier. For slow sipping, my Innsbruck connection brings home-made Austrian schnapps. I count my many blessings gazing at the milky way. ------------- Bob 2015 Chevy Colorado Z71 2018 178 R-pod Hood River Edition |
Posted By: StephenH
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 2:18pm
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I'm glad it worked for you. Given my prior experience with the generator and the convection/microwave, I would not have expected it to work. I'm happy to admit I was a bit too skeptical. Congratulations! ------------- StephenH Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7712 - ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
Posted By: lostagain
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2018 at 3:04pm
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The same quantity of Herradura Reposada tequila. No ice needed. Even better. ;--) ------------- Never leave footprints behind. Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
Posted By: tjdmobile
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 8:00pm
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Please forgive me if I missed anything in all of this how you connected these devices. Are you running your inverter at the batteries and then running the power output from the inverter into the plug-in on the side of the Rpod? If so, is there loss because the power converter is trying to charge the batteries with power from the Inverter? I have definitely been trying to figure out the best way to run (of all things) the Television while we are dry camping this year. I have the Renogy 100 Suitcase solar panels which I am connecting directly to the battery. I say battery, because while I got a pair of 12V Marine batteries from the dealer, I understand that I am better off not having them in parallel and running one at a time. I have a 400W sine wave inverter. It seems to use a lot of power from the battery. I am hoping to be able to get enough juice this way to run things without having to ever turn on the 3000 W Inverter Generator we bought last year...except for running the oven or the AC. Anyway, love thinking about dry camping with ability to use fan, TV and LED lights inside without using the generator and charging with my solar daily... ------------- 2018 R-Pod 179 2014 Ford F150 XLT Super Crew |
Posted By: Blender Bob
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 9:12pm
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Some additional information to clarify. I opened the 110vcircuit breaker on the converter to NOT charge batteries from 110V (that would just be a loop where the inverter will take 15% as overhead to the process) Running two batteries one at a time does not make sense me IMHO: 1) you have to monitor and then change connections. 2) better to have run two batteries down to 75% than 1 to 50% and the charge back up. A 400W inverter is not that big. probably can only run the TV, Radio, very small appliances. My microwave pulls 680watts, so probably a no go with your inverter. My inverter is 1200 watts - large enough for the microwave for about 17 min using both batteries down to 50%. I run my refrig on propane when dry camping. It uses too much power for my battery solution. Putting a pencil to the demand on your battery. Rough estimating: 1500 watts = ~ 15amp @120v, So 400watts is ~ 4amps @ 120v. Convert to 12v, a factor ~10. 4 amps becomes 40amps @ 12V. If each of your batteries are approx. 80Ahrs capacity, you probably have less than 1hr at 400watt load each - after adding inverter overhead. Doing an internet search on "Converting AC amps to 12V DC amp" yield a lot of help with the math to refine this calculation. Hope this helps. ------------- Bob 2015 Chevy Colorado Z71 2018 178 R-pod Hood River Edition |