R-Pod 179 Furnace fan noise - R-pod Owners Forum

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podwerkz

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Joined: 11 Mar 2019
Location: Texas
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Posts: 966

Calendar Event: R-Pod 179 Furnace fan noise
Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 12:08pm

Its the same reaction every time....but I used a catalytic heater in a motorhome for 17 winter seasons....and I aint dead. Yes, you have to take a few precautions and use common sense, just like driving a vehicle, shooting firearms at the range, skydiving, scuba diving, or riding a bicycle.

Almost 40,000 people in the USA die in motor vehicle accidents every year. If you really want to save lives, dont drive, and dont ever go anywhere, ever again, in your RV.

It's too risky.

r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!

offgrid

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Joined: 23 Jul 2018
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Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 12:22pm

Originally posted by geewizard

Originally posted by offgrid

Originally posted by podwerkz

Save your battery, your propane AND your ears, get a catalytic heater.

If you like breathing combustion products and risking CO poisoning......

Not so. I use a Wave3 catalytic heater. Not all catalytic heaters are the same. And we've been through this discussion MANY times before on this forum.

https://www.campingworld.com/camco-olympian-wave-3-catalytic-heater-19332.html

Well or course unvented combustion heaters release combustion products into the interior space. And without sufficient ventilation CO is produced. That is simply a fact. Its not like the catalyst magically allows the heater to heat without combustion.

I happen to be allergic to hydrocarbon combustion products, as are many others, I get sick breathing them. So I won't use an unvented heater. I get sick using an unvented natural gas oven too, so I have an all electric house, and I leave the door open when I use the stove top in the rPod.

If that doesn't bother you feel free. I was simply pointing out the drawbacks of choosing that direction.It's a personal choice, but one that should be made understanding the pros and cons.

1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

offgrid

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Joined: 23 Jul 2018
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Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 12:35pm

Originally posted by podwerkz

Its the same reaction every time....but I used a catalytic heater in a motorhome for 17 winter seasons....and I aint dead. Yes, you have to use precautions and common sense, just like driving a vehicle, shooting firearms at the range, skydiving, scuba diving, or riding a bicycle.

Almost 40,000 people in the USA die in motor vehicle accidents every year. If you really want to save lives, dont drive, and dont ever go anywhere, ever again, in your RV.

It's too risky.

To be clear I never said anything about it being too risky. Choosing to put in an unvented catalytic heater has nothing to do with how many people die in auto accidents.

I said they produce combustion products and can produce dangerous levels of CO. That is a fact. Makes me sick so I don't do it, and there is a perfectly good alternative that is are already in my trailer.

If you prefer to use a catalytic heater, that's fine with me, but I reserve the option of pointing out that there are cons to that approach.

Let's get this thread back on track helping with the original request which was to fix a noisy furnace blower.

1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

podwerkz

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Joined: 11 Mar 2019
Location: Texas
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Posts: 966

Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 12:44pm

You took us down the path of discussing the risks with your statement, and you DID mention 'risk':

Originally posted by offgrid

If you like breathing combustion products and risking CO poisoning......

My responses are equally valid. I cant let that statement stand as is. Catalytic heaters solve a lot of problems that noisy, expensive, unreliable, inefficient RV furnaces create.

In the case of a (properly operating, well ventilated) catalytic heater, the only 'combustion product' is water vapor (other than miniscule amounts of particulates and trace elements that are essentially not measurable)

They do consume oxygen, so that is why you need a bit of ventilation, to refresh the oxygen.

Catalytic heaters are NOT to be confused with the infrared 'Mr Buddy' type heaters...those simply burn propane directly and produce Carbon Monoxide (CO) in significant amounts that must be removed with proper ventilation.

r･pod 171 gone but not forgotten!

lostagain

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Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Location: Quaker Hill, CT
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Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 1:28pm

So, if you're going to use a catalytic heater, just be sure you have adequate ventilation and your CO and smoke detectors are working properly. Read the Consumer Product Safety Commission's study of this heating system to be sure you know the risks and how to mitigate them.

There is no need to have an argument over the use of any kind of heater you want. As long as one knows how it works, what is necessary for safe operation, and what risks are involved, it's up to the user. Yes, if you are irritated by the normal fan noise of an RV furnace, there are several gas/oxygen consuming heaters on the market that can be good alternatives. Just be clear on what you're getting into. Using a standard LP combustion RV furnace has its risks. It could develop a leak of combustion byproducts into the living space, it could develop a gas leak and explode, etc. etc. Heck, your travel trailer could get hit by a meteorite that could penetrate the roof and land on your head. That would really heat things up inside.

All heating systems have pro's and con's. If you can't fix what you don't like about the noisy RV furnace, choose something else or don't run it when you're sleeping. The only issues are what you like best and what risks you are willing to take. Once fully informed, you're on your own. .... and pointing out the risks, as did OG, is not a criticism of someone else's choice.

Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
Sonoma 167RB
Our Pod 172
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geewizard

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Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 2:08pm

.....and away we go.....

2021 Winnebago Micro Minnie 1708FB
2017 R-Pod 177 (Blue) HRE SOLD
2004 Outfitter Apex 8 camper
2014 Toyota Tundra DC

marwayne

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Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton AB Can
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Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 2:29pm

That is why I put in hot water heating, if I have hot water I have heat

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If you want something done right, do it yourself.
2011 RP172, 2016 Tundra 5.7 Litre, Ltd.

offgrid

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Joined: 23 Jul 2018
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Posted: 19 Sep 2020 at 3:21pm

Originally posted by podwerkz

You took us down the path of discussing the risks with your statement, and you DID mention 'risk':

Originally posted by offgrid

If you like breathing combustion products and risking CO poisoning......

My responses are equally valid. I cant let that statement stand as is. Catalytic heaters solve a lot of problems that noisy, expensive, unreliable, inefficient RV furnaces create.

They do consume oxygen, so that is why you need a bit of ventilation, to refresh the oxygen.

You took us down the path of replacing a ventilated furnace with an unventilated space heater without noting the downsides involved. Are saying there is no risk of CO poisoning from unventilated space heaters!?

Doesn't mean you can't accept that risk, your choice. I merely pointed out the cons of non ventilated heaters, I never said that there weren't pros to them, I do for example agree with you regarding the noise issue.

As for efficiency, for sure a non vented propane heater is 100% efficient if the space is not ventilated. But then, you'd be dead of CO poisoning. When you vent it properly I very much doubt that the net efficiency is better than the furnace you are replacing, and quite likely worse, depending on the temp differential between ambient and the trailer interior. No way to know without a controlled experiment.

As for expense, the furnace comes with your trailer, so it is the non vented heater that adds cost. My experience with the Suburban furnaces is that their reliability is quite good (unlike some of the other appliances), so please provide data supporting your position that they are unreliable.

As I said before, if you want to install a non vented heater in your trailer, feel free. I will continue to choose not to install one in mine. And yes I do know what a catalytic heater is.

Here is the chemical formula for complete combustion of propane

C3H8(g)+5O2(g)→3CO2(g)+4H2O(g).

So, you forgot the CO2.

That is for complete combustion, which never happens. In reality there are oxides of nitrogen and unburned hydrocarbons generated, as well as traces of other products. One "trace" product comes from the combustion of mercaptan, which is what is put in the propane to make it stink so you know when you have a leak. Sulphur dioxide is one of the combustion products of mercaptan. Sure that is a "trace" product but it certainly is measurable, just as the mercaptan is ":measurable" by our olfactory senses, Next you'll be telling me that my allergic reaction (and many others') to propane combustion products is in my head,

Edit: I like marwayne's solution, not only do you get quiet heating without any risk from combustion products, but you also have dual energy sources built in: propane and electric. You can't get as many btu/hour though (12kbtu/hr propane and 4.7k btu/hr electric vs 20K for the furnace), so you probably want something additional for these really cold nights.

1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold

R-Pod 179 Furnace fan noise - Event Date: 17 Sep 2020