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Tars Tarkas
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Topic: Outside Shower Enclosure Posted: 13 May 2017 at 10:42pm |
Great Smokey Mountains NP regulation:
Waste Water
Dish water and bath water must be drained at utility sinks or dump
stations, not on the ground. Do not wash or bathe in streams or at water
fountains. RV sewage should be drained only at a dump station. Showers
and utility hookups are not available in the park. Showers may be
available in nearby towns.
Capital Reef NP (Utah) regulation:
Bathing/Dishwashing:
Wash dishes, bathe, and use only completely contained solar showers at
your site. Washing of any kind is not permitted at spigots, drinking
fountains or the RV dump station. Do not wash dishes in the restroom or
gray-water sinks. Water from dishwashing, bathing and solar showers must
be collected and deposited in gray-water disposal sinks.
Those are just the first two examples I found. My point is, despite what might seem to make sense or to be reasonable there are sometimes regulations that apply. The NP Service probably has their own rationale, but I think the rules are based less on consideration of fellow campers than of the environment. All kinds of animal behavior, not to mention health, can be affected scents and pathogens of human activity and waste, even if it seems trivial or is invisible to us. Of course, in cluster campgrounds, the problems are easily compressed and concentrated to the point that they can be annoying or unhealthy to humans too.
And let me say this about boondocking, picking a nit perhaps. We camp in the Smokies and Outer Banks National Seashore campgrounds more than anywhere else, and there are no hookups at all in those campgrounds, so if you stay there, you boondock. These campgrounds aren't as tightly packed as a lot of places I've seen, but let's just say it's still not hard to have an annoying neighbor. Plus, quite often in season, there is someone setting up in the site I just left before I leave the dump station. If it's me moving in, I don't want to find a puddle of someone's bath or dishwater.
On the other hand, I've been to those dispersed campsites too that Furpod referred to. There are still environmental concerns even if no one will camp in the same spot for another two years. Leave no trace is generally the rule to go by. Again, it really, really gripes me in those kinds of places to have to deal with, or even see, someone else's trash or waste that wasn't carried out our buried properly. I figure the reason people go to those places is to enjoy nature in its pristine state. Unless we go to the necessary effort to protect those places the stress of all the additional people who like to camp nowadays will make places worth going to harder and harder to find.
All that said, there are places remote enough that even I figure if a bear can do it in the woods, I can too. But I bury my crap and don't use soap or shampoo if I find it necessary to bathe in a lake or stream. I'm talking about places Pods don't (can't) go.
TT
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computerfixitguy
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Posted: 13 May 2017 at 8:08pm |
I googled pathogens as that made real sense. So if a pathogen is a living thing, where would a camper get it? Except from the environment around the camper. So washing off living things, from the area in which there were obtained, seems OK to me. There are pathogens in water. So if you bring your water from far away, then you do bring hitch hikers essentially. However, don't most TT people fill up on water when they get close to the destination? Which still yields the same result.
Showering outside, uses 1 - 2 gallons. In volume, on a bad day, 2 tbsp of soap? Of which, 40% by volume is a natural oil for fragrance. Leaving about a tbsp of a cleanser. That doesn't seem too excessive.
Derek
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Kim & Derek
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mcarter
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Posted: 13 May 2017 at 3:50pm |
Pahaque makes one of the stand up portable latrines like Cabela's. They have a use, where legal to use and if boondocking. We used to set one up in base camp when we mule deer hunted in AZ. I wouldn't use one in a campground nor use my outside spray wand as a shower in a campground. Really about common sense.
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Mike Carter
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lostagain
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Posted: 13 May 2017 at 12:32pm |
Seems to me that the outside shower isn't really intended as a bathing facility but rather a place to rinse off like an out door shower at a beach.
Bathing leaves behind potential pathogens that can present a public health issue when sufficiently concentrated, as could be the case in a campground, especially those that are heavily used. The same for tossing dishwater. When boon docking it poses little risk simply because there aren't enough bugs or other contaminates (assuming the use of biodegradable soaps) to create a problem for campers or the fauna in the area.
Certainly, campground managers have to contend with the tent campers who don't have access to a gray water holding tanks for their used dishwater and minimal hygiene water waste, but since we ponders have the option to contain our gray water, it helps to reduce the risk and is the responsible thing to while in campgrounds. It all boils down to how much is the impact and what is the risk. Where the concentration of tent campers is sufficiently high that their gray waster waste is risky to the public, then it is the responsibility of public officials to provide some reasonable means of disposal to ensure public health.
As for the aesthetic issue of exposing one's uncovered self to the public, that depends on the sensibilities of the folks around. For me, I'd find it delightful to watch Jennifer Lopez rinse off in a trailer side shower, but my wife would, shall we say, "not be pleased" with me even if I only peeked at such a marvelous sight. It is an issue of common sense and sensibility to those around you. Some times when I go to the beach, I wonder why there aren't lawyers set up with card tables to sign up clients to sue some of the beach goers for the intentional infliction of mental distress cause by their failure to adequately cover themselves.
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blimey
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Posted: 13 May 2017 at 12:29pm |
PahaQue Tepee Shower and Outhouse Tent I had (still have) one of these that I used with my pop up.I bought it on ebay used at a much cheaper cost than the one shown. I also bought the capture floor which catches all of your "gray" water as you shower.I then pumped it into a 5 gallon bucket with a d cell battery pump. Water was them disposed of in the campsite gray water dump. For a shower I used a propane powered shower.
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Posted: 13 May 2017 at 11:42am |
Originally posted by RichC
Originally posted by furpod
One note.. boondocking/dispersed camping, is very different from park or campground camping..
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When boon docking, trailer or tent, water used is water carried. |
That's what I am getting at. Dispersed, boondocking or an organized campground, dispose of properly. Even the dispersed areas, though not stressed to the extent of organized campgrounds, are still used by others. If you liked a particular "spot", I would probably like and use it too.
I can empathize with your "size" complaint. Unless one buys a really large RV, the showers are all small. I doubt even an elementary school sized kid would find them spacious. Maybe we should all take up yoga?
However, difficult as it is, it's better than nothing and it keeps my waste contained.
I consider this a small sacrifice to respect my fellow campers and the property/nature. We all want to enjoy the outdoors and need to do our part to leave it as good (or even better) than we found it.
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RichC
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Posted: 13 May 2017 at 11:08am |
Originally posted by David
Originally posted by furpod
One note.. boondocking/dispersed camping, is very different from park or campground camping..
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I see your point but, nasty is nasty no matter where I park it. |
Actually, this discussion has been useful, as usual here. I really see your point. You probably remember when you first got a pod. If you are like me, you were trying to figure out how to adapt what you used to do to what you can/should do now.
Using the outdoor water was part of my noodling. The difference is that the trailer will be in the camp sight. The shower tent was well outside of it, in an are where ranger or host said it was OK to dispose of grey wager.
I will be taking the camp shower boon docking but will set it up as before. At least I won't have to wait for sun shower to heat up.
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computerfixitguy
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Posted: 13 May 2017 at 11:01am |
Without arguing I am trying to learn from the perspective that you shouldn't use the outdoor shower. Breaking that down, you shouldn't use soap. Otherwise its just water. So what is the perspective of not using soap? Assuming you are not immediately on some watersedge, using bio-soap is chemically neutral as does break down on its own.
I consider my self a save the trees/planet kinda guy. I feel that human waste is a showstopper in a natural environment and is to not be tolerated. However, I like the outdoor shower because of the extra room for my arms alone. Being discrete is part of being an adult. Being environmentally conscious means using biodegradable soap in the wilderness. Open spaces are to be enjoyed and not trampled.
Is that really an out of line position? I imagine most tent campers don't pack their water out, so I hope they are responsible too.
Derek
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RichC
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Posted: 13 May 2017 at 10:36am |
Originally posted by furpod
One note.. boondocking/dispersed camping, is very different from park or campground camping..
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That's kind of what I've been referring to. Also our camp showers use about 2 quarts of water -- a step up from a sponge bath. When boon docking, trailer or tent, water used is water carried.
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Posted: 13 May 2017 at 10:18am |
Originally posted by furpod
One note.. boondocking/dispersed camping, is very different from park or campground camping..
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I see your point but, nasty is nasty no matter where I park it.
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