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Topic ClosedWell, I did it.
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Kevinscamps View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Location: Fort collins, c
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Posts: 37 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Well, I did it.
    Posted: 24 Oct 2018 at 5:07pm

My issue with this solution is the need to winterize and dewinterize everytime I go out.  What I really want is a separate hot water heater filled with propolene glycol slaved to a much larger heat exchanger with a high volume low velocity fan or fans.  Fans speed could be continuously varied to keep a constant temperature.  No more temperature going up and down all the time, no large blower noise, just quiet continuous heat.  Can somebody please make that??  AquaHot has something similar, but expensive and 40k BTU, which is over kill.

Of course you could just fill up the hot water tank for the winter with the pink stuff and put in bypass valve so it does not accidentally come out the sink when you knock the tap with your elbow.
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2018 at 4:25pm
If I had to guess the i'd say the water heat system is probably able to produce more than 3 kbtu/hr but less than 6 kbth/hr, so more than the wave 3 but less than the wave 6.  The easiest way to find out for sure would be to run it and time the water heater duty cycle. The fan cfm is probably the limiting factor and that could be increased but at the expense of a bit more noise. 12 kbtu/hr is of course the upper limit because that's what the water heater is rated for. 

The catalytic heaters work great and are silent or nearly so. But some of us are either concerned about and/or allergic to breathing combustion products. The hot water systems solve that issue. Also, FWIW, since the water heater can be heated by either propane or 120Vac electric it can be used either on or off grid, which could save carrying around an electric box heater. 

So, its great to have options, and much thanks to the folks who have made the water heat solution work and shared their solutions. That's one thing I really like about this forum. 
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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Kevinscamps View Drop Down
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Posts: 37 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2018 at 4:10pm
I put a Wave 3 in my Scamp.  It did an OK job of heating, but it heated up really slowly, is really not that much more efficient in terms of propane because you have to ventilate, and you are breathing whatever is coming through the catalytic pad which in theory is nothing but C02 and water, but nothing ever works perfectly.  That said,  I am installing a PlatCat in my Rpod.  It is also a catalytic heater, but it has forced ventilation, thermostatic control, and much more heat output with no additional ventilation required.

In terms of heating potential assuming 100% efficiency of the heat transfer the maximum is around 12000 BTU  or whatever the capability of the hot water heater is.  Even assuming pretty crappy efficiency it is going to be able to put out way more heat then a wave3 3000 btu - minus the heat that goes out the window.  Plus lots of people won't use the wave3 at night out of fear of killing themselves from oxygen deprivation (also scared of CO, but that is more paranoia).  

By the way, the wave3 is a fire hazard. I damn near lit my camper on fire once, by dropping a pillow off the bed and it took a bad bounce and leaned up against the heater.  It filled the camper with smoke fast!  It is also very good at melting sleeping bags.  Also from experience I would recommend the Wave6 over the Wave3 for increased power output.
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Posts: 42 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2018 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by geewizard

I think this hot water heating systems is the cat's pajamas but I wonder if it puts out any more heat than the Wave 3 propane heater I've installed that draws 0 amps.

I'm not knocking the hot water heating system at all......just wondering.


Got pictures/howto?
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Posts: 347 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2018 at 3:41pm
I think this hot water heating systems is the cat's pajamas but I wonder if it puts out any more heat than the Wave 3 propane heater I've installed that draws 0 amps.

I'm not knocking the hot water heating system at all......just wondering.
2021 Winnebago Micro Minnie 1708FB
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2004 Outfitter Apex 8 camper
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Posts: 42 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 11:33am
Originally posted by voisj

 
Bought the main items from EBAY.

Awesome! Thank you!
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 11:10am
Thanks voisj,  

I think you're right, that pump looks like its sized about right, the fan is probably the limiting factor.  Maybe a second fan, one pushing and one pulling, would be worth adding if someone wanted to be able to use this as the main heat source in colder weather. 
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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voisj View Drop Down
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Posts: 471 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 9:51am
offgrid,
 Thanks,fixed the link.
 I feel it worked fine,  it is only a computer fan so it wont heat it up from cold to 60 fast at all. But a good amount of air blows out of the grill, the fan specs claim 135 cfm.  We use the furnace to bump it up in the morning or to warm it up fast after being out.  This unit kept the pod near 60 at 37 degrees one night and it ran all night. SO much better than the loud furnace going off and on
 Marwayne used a modified baseboard heater so it would not restrict the flow as much, this would work better in a colder climate, most places we camp rarely get below the mid 40's at night.
Cheers John
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2016 180 HRE, 2013 F150 Eco Boost
 
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 7:49am
Voisj, very nice work.

Looks like you put the heat exchanger link in twice instead of the water pump link?

The heat exchanger looks like it should have plenty of capacity (its rated for 40kbtu/hr vs the water heater at 12k) but I'm wondering how well the computer fan did for you pushing air through the fins? Usually heat exchangers go in ducts with squirrel cage blowers that can handle a lot of back pressure. 

Thanks!
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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Posts: 471 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2018 at 9:50pm
MIK,
Bought the main items from EBAY.
I used a three speed fan so it could be quieter if necessary, (was not necessary as these things are really quiet.)  
Home depot
1/2" pex tubing 2 - 10' pieces.
sharkbite tee fitting - 2
sharkbite 1/2" valves - 2 
sharkbite (1/2") to male thread fittings - 4 (2 for pump and 2 for heat exchanger)
copper 1" to 1/2" female reducer fittings -2  ( soldered to the heat exchanger pipes, had 1" copper in/out).
24 x24 sheet of tin (to box in heat exchanger).
$12 cheap thermostat
heat wrap.
Thats it.
I was going for a simple system.
Return air comes in through the existing furnace return air holes.
I drew from the cold line into the WH as I always had air in the top of the tank and this solved the crazy pump/gurgling sound  problem.
I found full time 12v power at the furnace.
I put a shut off on both the in and out. (after these pics)  I needed a shutoff for the in side because convection kept the water moving if I didn't. The out side was just so I could isolate the system for repairs or whatever.
It's still operating perfect i'm told in Santa Barbara they never even use the furnace. But then it's never really cold there.
Third picture. I used a scrap piece of 1/4"plywood to replace the veneer for the new panel in case I needed to go back to stock. Turns out Rustoleum hammered bronze spray paint matched perfect. And you can see the valve I used to shut off convection flow. You need this, My wife made me shut it off when she showered because it messed with the hot water SOMETIMES,(never happened to me) you could just add a check valve on the cold line and it would solve this.
Hit the SLOPODMODS link by my signature, about halfway down the page 1 is a video link.



Any more questions, let me know.
rgds John
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John&Sue,SLO,CA
2016 180 HRE, 2013 F150 Eco Boost
 
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