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ouR escaPOD mods

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DavMar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DavMar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: ouR escaPOD mods
    Posted: 03 Jul 2021 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by StephenH

Originally posted by offgrid

Since the Li batteries each has a dedicated BMS I don't think paralleling two different age Li batteries is anything near the problem it is with PbA.
That is exactly the question I was going to ask. I asked ExpertPower and they recommended that if the battery was over 6 months old, they would not recommend paralleling it. However, given what you said about each having its own BMS, it would make sense that the same capacity battery added n parallel would likely be okay.


You might find this general information on paralleling Lithium batteries useful.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2021 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by offgrid

Since the Li batteries each has a dedicated BMS I don't think paralleling two different age Li batteries is anything near the problem it is with PbA.
That is exactly the question I was going to ask. I asked ExpertPower and they recommended that if the battery was over 6 months old, they would not recommend paralleling it. However, given what you said about each having its own BMS, it would make sense that the same capacity battery added n parallel would likely be okay.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2021 at 12:54pm
100% agree the compressor fridge will do a better job in hot weather, not only does it's COP stay higher, but it has much more capacity. It will just use more energy.

Not sure what size solar module you have but a 100 watt one should provide about 5-6 amps into a nominal 12V battery when oriented perpendicular to the sun's rays on a clear day. If that is an average spring or summer day they you'll get about 5 sunhours in the East or roughly 25-30 amphours. If it's an average fall day then 15-20 amphours. Either way. not enough to run a Danfoss fridge. I typically would use about 200 watts for a Danfoss vaccine fridge, and those were never expected to cool things down, the vaccines always went in ready cold.

So you can certainly add a second solar module but I'd be inclined to add additional battery to start with. In our part of the country we get lots of cloudy days where the solar module(s) won't produce squat and the genny would have to run anyway. Doubling your battery capacity would get you through 2-3 cloudy days boondocking in hot weather which sounds like it should be enough for the way you use your pod most of the time, and it would also allow another day or two for the weather to clear and your solar production to average out. One thing with off grid solar system design is to try to always balance how much battery capacity you have with how much solar production.

Since the Li batteries each has a dedicated BMS I don't think paralleling two different age Li batteries is anything near the problem it is with PbA.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2021 at 9:46am
Thanks. That is a great analysis. I did add additional insulation around the box of the refrigerator except where the compressor and condenser sit. That should help with the energy efficiency of the new refrigerator.

Other factors are the ability to cool in hot weather. That is where I always had problems with the absorption refrigerator and which caused us to start carrying and using the FPSC cooler. That should no longer be needed unless we want the additional capacity it would provide. It is possible that I might want to increase the amount of solar. I was seeing at peaks, 5+ Amperes being generated by the panel (according to the charge controller) in full sunlight. With the 1.x Amperes being used by the refrigerator, the meter inside was showing much less amperes being fed into the battery. That varied, of course, based on whether the refrigerator compressor was running full-tilt or throttled back or off. Again, I don't have a way to record these things so my observations are spot observations.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2021 at 6:55am
Originally posted by GlueGuy

The installation looks very nice Stephen; good job!
I do have a couple of questions though. 
The interior looks pretty roomy. What is the volume comparison between the old absorption fridge and this one?
Do you have a delta on the energy cost difference?


Re cost difference, let's assume the actual heat being removed is the same with the two fridges. That's probably pretty close (assuming the absorption one is working), they very have similar size and insulation levels.

The coefficient of performance for the Danfoss compressor's specs have it around 1.5 to 2 (better at cooler ambient temps, worse at higher). So it's using around 0.5 to 0.7 watt hours of electricity to remove one watt hour of heat from the fridge.

It's a lot more difficult to get a COP for the absorption fridge but it's much worse, and drops off much faster at high ambient temps than does the compressor. From what I could find, a COP in the range of 0.5 to 0.75 is about right. That's consistent with the units using around 10-11 amps continuous (240-270 amp hours/day when in 12V mode, (and only marginally cooling in that mode) or about 3x-4x the energy of the compressor fridge. Let's call it roughly 1 kwh/day compressor vs 3 kwh/day absorption.

So then the question is cost of that energy. If youre running both on electric shore power at a campground there is zero cost difference to you. Advantage: neither.

If you're running both on a small gasoline generator (electricity from which typically costs about $0.75 to $1 per kwh) then the cost difference is about $1.50-$2.00 per day. Advantage: Compressor fridge.

But why would anyone do that? They would just run the absorption fridge on propane, which you can't to with the compressor fridge. Then the advantage shifts. That's because if you use a generator to run an absorption fridge you are burning fuel to create heat, converting that heat into electricity (only about 20% efficient at best in a small genny) and then turning that electricity back into heat.

That 5x difference in efficiency between burning the fuel directly in the absorption fridge and running it through the conversion to electric for the compressor fridge more than compensates for the inefficiency of the absorption fridge itself.

So if you are boondocking using a propane genny like I do, you would be better off with a propane fired absorption fridge than the Danfoss compressor one, all else being equal. Advantage: absorption fridge.

Finally, let's look at the case where you are boondocking running the compressor fridge on solar, vs running the absorption fridge on propane. Since you already bought enough solar, but are paying for the propane, the advantage shifts back to the compressor fridge in terms of incremental costs. iOW, you might as well use the solar since you already own it.

I'm gonna stop here, if you haven't bought the solar yet and want to calculate the payback time on that investment then that is another chapter.....



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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 2:57pm
We traveled through Colorado on our recent trip. At that time, we were using the FPSC cooler. It is that experience that helped convince me that an efficient compressor refrigerator was feasible.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ben Herman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by StephenH

Why did I forego gas? Simple. Too many times I have had inadequate cooling with the absorption refrigerator. Gas isn't an option with a compressor refrigerator. I considered the trade-off of shorter boondocking time to be acceptable given our travel experience. It is not often that we would need multiple days of boondocking. For those times, I have a solar panel and the dual-fuel generator to help recharge the LiFePO4 battery.

Makes sense, out here in Colorado we are without hookups 90% of the time so I rely heavily on gas. I can see  that in your situation,  with your power mods that you've done, that this looks like a great solution. Thanks for the  posting and information.....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 12:07pm
It would be easier if the meter I have would interface with the phone or computer so I could log data, but it does not so there is no practical way to get the numbers. When we have more experience with it, I will post what I can.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Olddawgsrule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 11:41am
Post up some numbers on power usage when you get there. I'd like to hear running average (after inital cooling). I suspect in the low 1's on average for a sustained time. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2021 at 11:11am
RM8501 specifies 3.5 cu.ft. CRX 1110 specifies 3.7 cu.ft.

As for the delta on energy cost, I have no idea how to calculate that. On DC power, there is absolutely no comparison. The 8501 would drain the old dual 6V battery setup in a matter of a few hours. My brief weekend with the CRX-1110 indicates that I could probably get at least 24 hours or more in hot weather. With the insulation I added after the weekend, and if the temperatures were cooler, it would likely be able to run for much longer. Of course, it will not run nearly as long as the 8501 would run on a full propane tank. The trade-off is that it will keep temperatures much cooler, even in hot weather.

It is also automatic changeover between AC and DC power so no more remembering to switch manually.
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ouR escaPOD mods
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