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Patriot Dave View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Battery Recommendation
    Posted: 04 Mar 2016 at 8:23pm
With all the conversation here regarding batteries, I had thought, I had what I was gonna do all figured out...LOL

We have pretty much decided on an R179 and I have been working on my list of items (all Learned here) to negotiate with our dealer and batteries were one of those items.

I have been to a Battery Wholesale store and learned a bit more; learned about 24, 27 and 31 series and looked at their battery cases and asked questions about deep cycle among other things.

I was originally thinking I would need 2 - deep cycle batteries in at least a 27 series but I am now not so sure.

I have a Yamaha 2000 Inverter generator and now I am thinking I may only need 1 - deep cycle 27 or better yet a 31 series, and charge it with the generator as needed.

We will be camping at least up to 1 - week - 10 days at a time. Much of the camping will be in Michigan for about 8 or 9 months of the year. In early spring and late fall we will need the furnace and will probably always need the water pump.

I am guessing a deep charged battery should hold us for at a minimum 3 days and 2 nights??? before I would need to charge the battery.

Would it not be better to run the generator every 3rd day long enough to charge one battery, over having 2 - batteries and about every 5th or 6th day having to run the generator for a good number of hours to charge 2 - batteries???

Does that not make sense????
Dave & Joyce
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CharlieM View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2016 at 8:56pm
Dave,

A few points on the never ending battery discussion/options:

  1. Be careful shopping for Gp27 and Gp31 deep cycle batteries. True deep cycle batteries are hard to find in these sizes except for something like Trojans. Most so called "deep cycle" batteries sold are "Marine" batteries designed for engine starting. If the battery has a cold cranking spec it is not a true deep cycle battery.
  2. One true deep cycle Gp27 battery will give you ~ 105 AH; one true deep cycle Gp31 battery will give you ~130 AH. Two 6 volt GC2 golf cart batteries in series will give you 220 AH at 12V. Only half these values are really available since you don't want to discharge a battery more than 50%. If you do consider two batteries the GC2s are probably cheaper, and the series configuration is better than a parallel configuration in all aspects except redundancy.
  3. The larger battery packs just extend the time between recharges, but the total time required is determined by how much energy you have to put back into the battery. Your usage suggests 20-30 AH/day. The recommended regimen is discharge the battery to 50% SOC, then recharge to 80% every two days. Recharging to 90-100% gets very inefficient and long. Then fully recharge overnight when you get home.
  4. My recommendation would be to start with two GC2s and recharge as you find necessary. The GC2s will handle the 2-3 day trips and you can leave the generator at home.
Charlie
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Patriot Dave View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2016 at 5:30am
Thanks Charlie

I have a curve ball to add to the equation; I forgot to say I am being tested for sleep apnea (what a pain) and very well may end up with a Cpap unit.....my understanding is they will run on both 110 and 12 volts. If it is determined i need on of these, it will be plugged in for 6 - 7 hours each night and they run continuous.

That said, what are your thoughts.

Thanks
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hogone View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2016 at 6:57am
charlie (or others too!).  I mentioned a while back that i'm in the market too (think i drew mine down too far a couple of times and they 12v just don't seem to hold very long any more).  i was looking on battery plus bulbs site.  they have 3 gc2's.  215ah@20 hr rate($98.50); 230ah @ 20 hr rate($109.99); and 235ah @ 20 hr rate($129.99).  putting aside cost, which would be the best (i guess hogone is thinking the 235ah, but maybe not).  no matter how many posts i read, i just cant get it!  hogone
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2016 at 8:45am
"the best".. is relative, for US, it was the most aH's we could fit on the rack without modification to the rack. When talking 12v dual battery systems BTW, dual group 27's and 31's won't fit on the factory rack. You will need to do a truck box mod or something to do them. As far as world opinion... Dual Trojan T-105s is the answer of "best" in GC-2 sized batteries.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2016 at 10:25am

I have just became aware of B+B offerings. My general rule is to shoot for the middle. Lowest cost usually means lowest quality and highest cost usually means marketing BS. While I agree with Furpod on Trojan 105s, the B+B mid-level is worth considering. The next option up would be two GC12s, also available from B+B. Two GC12s in parallel would provide 300+ AH. They would violate my preference for series vs parallel, they are expensive, they are heavy, and they require mounting tray work, but nothing is perfect. For the ~300 AH solution I would prefer these to Gp27 or Gp31 solutions.

The addition of a CPAP just adds to the magnitude of the problem, but doesn’t complicate it. You will still need some recharge capability after a few days. BTW always run the CPAP directly from 12V if possible. DC to AC inverters just waste battery energy as heat. The only long term non generator solution is solar, but that comes with its own set of issues including roof space and large oak trees overhead.

As you increase battery capacity you need to also increase charger capability. For two GC2s Trojan recommends charging to14.8V at 28+ Amps. While the OEM converter on the RPOD is quite adequate for its intended use it is limited for fast recharging, primarily due to the small wire connecting the battery to the converter. If extended off grid stays are frequent consider a better external charger. At max charging rate the power is still less than 500 Watts so your generator is loafing along, just burning gas and making noise. Wink  See these clips from the Trojan users guide.


So my recommendation remains start with two GC2s, watch the State of Charge (SOC), and recharge as needed. You’ll soon get an idea of your usage and needs and adjust accordingly.

Camp on!

Charlie
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2016 at 12:14pm
That is why I went with the 6V GC2 batteries. I did go B&B low end 215 Ah, which still beats the 12V setup the RP would have come with. I use a CPAP machine. I had no problems running overnight even with the furnace also running as we dry-camped across the US. Of course, the vehicle was charging the batteries during the day, but if there are no other appliances (especially the refrigerator) drawing current, the GC2 batteries should provide more than adequate capacity for your needs.

I also ran my CPAP with passive humidification. I had water in the tank, but with the humidification set to "0," which means no heat is being applied to the tank. I don't know the current draw of passive humidification.

Phillips Respironics provides this information for the humidifier for the System One CPAP:

Electrical
(When the heated humidifier is used with a Philips Respironics therapy device)
AC Power Consumption
(with 60W power supply)
: 100 – 240 VAC, 50/60 Hz, 2.1 A
AC Power Consumption
(with 80W power supply)
: 100 – 240 VAC, 50/60 Hz, 2.0 A
DC Power Consumption: 12 VDC, 6.67 A
Type of Protection Against Electric Shock: Class II Equipment
Degree of Protection Against Electric Shock: Type BF Applied Part
Degree of Protection against Ingress of Water: Drip Proof, IP22
Mode of Operation: Continuous
Electromagnetic Compatibility: The device meets the requirements of EN 60601-1-2, 2nd edition.

6.67A is the figure to use with the humidifier in use. 215Ah/2 (50%) = 107.5Ah which when divided by 6.67A = 16 hours (rounded). Whatever battery setup you get, you can figure out how long the CPAP will run with humidification. Running without humidification and/or running other items will affect that time.

These are maximum draw figures. See this for some more information:
http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?134230-CPAP-12v-Source-Amp-Hour-Requirements
StephenH
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hogone View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2016 at 8:07am
so 2 6v batteries will fit on the battery rack correct?  hogone
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furpod View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2016 at 8:17am
Originally posted by hogone

so 2 6v batteries will fit on the battery rack correct?  hogone


Yes, either in separate boxes or a single.


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hogone View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2016 at 8:35am
thanks furpod.  be honest!!  am i wasting my money on these durecells?  hogone
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