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LifePo4
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EchoGale View Drop Down
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Posts: 461 		Post Options Post Options   Quote EchoGale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: LifePo4
    Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 5:33pm
So my new camper came from the dealer with a lead acid battery that is only 70AH. I can't really boondock even overnight so I have to upgrade.  

I had a group 24 and a 27 initially in the pod --though I never knew the exact AH for them. (I know unmatched is bad...that's how it came to me). I could manage with those by being really careful using only necessary power (fridge control panel, Co2 detector, brief pump use etc). I now have 190 watts of solar on the roof and my Go Power controller can be switched over for Lithium. I'm looking at a single 100AH LifePo4 which I expect will give me about the same amount of usable amps, if not a little more.

I can buy this from Renogy for $465 but has anyone had experience with the most inexpensive brands? I'm looking at:

 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084DB36KW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ARUKXJLE7BDB9&psc=1
or
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09L5XT8HB/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A793D3B497JF&psc=1

I'd very much prefer the lower priced ones, in part because I might ending up also buying a second one. Here's one thing that makes me wonder: the dealer tech guy who did the walk through (he was AWFUL, don't get me started) said I'd have to buy "not one of the cheap ones but one that costs $1000 with its own computer." I'm not sure what to make of this because he couldn't really tell me the thing that I needed (other than a price point which as we know is always changing). I think maybe his info is old and he doesn't know they have dropped in price and that they all have BMS now. But maybe one of you spots something I'm missing?

Looking for your generous insight, as always.

Julie :)
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EchoGale View Drop Down
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Posts: 461 		Post Options Post Options   Quote EchoGale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 5:42pm
or this one:  https://www.amazon.com/LISUATELI-Protection-Batteries-Phosphate-BMS-Support/dp/B08YMYH5NX/ref=psdc_15719911_t3_B09L5XT8HB?th=1
Julie
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jato View Drop Down
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Posts: 3220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 6:40pm
Just an alternative thought Julie, the intent here is not to change your mind but this (LA batteries) has worked quite well and I don't use either solar or a generator.  The oldest battery on the 177 will turn 12 years old in a couple weeks, it is a 12v Interstate group size 24 deep cycle.  The newest (2.5 years old) is a 12v Trojan T-1275, heavy at 85 lbs but does give 150 aH.  In the off months where the furnace is used a lot I am good for 7 days using both batteries separately (not tied together).  I never stay at one spot for more than a week so by that time the tow vehicle will charge the lowest battery en route to the next destination.  Much of our camping in the upper midwest is under cloudy conditions such as the U.P. of Michigan or other areas around the great lakes so solar doesn't float my boat.  Different camping styles - different needs, different outcomes.
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Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
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hank*pod View Drop Down
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Posts: 61 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hank*pod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 7:11pm
Curious because I'm a new R-Pod owner but have tented for a few years. What do you want to do that a 70 ah lead acid battery can't support overnight? I have a generator but don't necessarily think I'll need it every night particularly when I'm on a multi-day road trip.
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Posts: 6288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2023 at 7:22pm
I don't have any experience with the brands you posted. I have one of these:


and one of these:


Both have performed well. I have the 100AH in my house for backup for my amateur radio equipment now. The 200AH is mounted in a box on the tongue of the new trailer. Mine has solar on the roof, but only 50 Watts.

Now the question: Does your new camper have an AC/DC only refrigerator or one that uses propane also? If it uses propane, then your power needs will be lower. If AC/DC only, then the bigger battery capacity would be good, especially if you need to go more than just overnight on battery power alone.

Anyway, let us know what you decide.
StephenH
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EchoGale View Drop Down
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Posts: 461 		Post Options Post Options   Quote EchoGale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2023 at 9:45am
Thanks for the help!

Jato, I was okay with the LA batteries in my 172 but now, since i really need to upgrade, with prices having come down on lithium, and my ever-present concern over weight, Lifepo4 seems the way to go.  I have been going back and forth on this point for a few days now though.  :)

Hank, I have typically boondocked for days at a time--often until my batteries are too low and I can't get enough recharge from my portable solar panel. It's just that this one battery was down to 71% in about 8 hours at 9:00 PM.

Stephen,  I looked at the 100AH version of your 200 AH and I think it would suit my needs. (My fridge does run on propane). Some follow-up questions, if you don't mind:

1) do you see a difference between your higher priced and lower priced batteries?

2) do you make anything of that tech guy's advice about only buying a $1K battery or do you think it's reasonable to assume he was referring to BMS and had out of date information?

3) the unboxing procedures have me confused. It seems they come partially charged and you have to discharge and then fully recharge them "before using them" but I can't find anything on how to do that. Can I put it in the camper and run stuff to discharge (how is that not "using them")?  What recharge instructions I found said to use a solar panel without a controller?  I don't have that. Can I recharge it in the camper on shore power?

Thanks, all

Julie
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Posts: 6288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2023 at 6:36pm
1. In specifications, yes. The higher priced ones are likely to have better BMS systems and/or the ability to warm themselves when they are cold so they can accept a charge. There may be a longer warranty as well. The batteries used may be constructed differently. In the case of the Expert Power battery, their claim is to a better quality battery.

2, I think by cheap ones, he may have been referring to one without a BMS. Just about any of them you see on Amazon will have a BMS. You can purchase cells and put them together into a battery for pretty cheap, but it will not have the BMS. You can add that and then you are getting into the price range of a complete one with BMS from what I have seen.

3. Yes. The instructions are confusing. Install and run appliances until it shuts down is one way. On the other hand, installing it and charging it is likely to work just as well. The part about connecting a solar panel without the controller had to do with activating the BMS if the battery had been discharged down to where the BMS went into protective mode. Since it is partially charged, the BMS should not be triggered that way, so regular charging with the converter or with a solar panel through the controller should be just fine. I am guessing that your converter is suited for Lithium batteries. Mine came with a sticker saying it would auto-detect the type battery, so I did not have to change anything with the new Grey Wolf when I removed the L-A battery and installed my LiFePO4 battery. Please confirm though whether the converter is suitable for Lithium batteries.
StephenH
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ouR escaPOD mods
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Colt View Drop Down
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Posts: 383 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Colt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 3:38pm
Hi Miss Julie,

I have 2 of these Eco-Worthy 100 A-Hr batteries, in parallel, in my home system and one is likely destined for my R-pod.  One of these has about the same usable A-Hrs and my previous Pb-SO4 bank and is so much simpler.  I have been well satisfied with everything I've gotten from Eco-worthy, so far.  Though pretty new, I expect the batteries to be the same. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09L89LW3P?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Most likely the "have its own computer" statement meant a BMS and all of the Li batteries in retail have the BMS built in. 

Your original converter will be adequate for a LiFePO4 battery, but you may want to upgrade sometime to a converter with Li capability. 
John
'16 R-Pod 180
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KenWP View Drop Down
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Posts: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Quote KenWP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 4:36pm
I just installed two of these inside the forward 'electrical cabinet' of my '17 177HRE.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09F2LLMY3

I also got the upgraded / updated converter to properly manage the charging:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B46SCH3T

First trip with this setup will be 2-3 night boondocking this coming weekend. I'll report back if any issues.
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Posts: 6288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2023 at 5:11pm
If your trailer is new, you may have an auto-sensing converter that can handle the LiFePO4 battery. You would need to verify that. I have a WFCO WF8950L2 MBA that I was using and I removed it when I traded the RPod. I don't need it for the new trailer so it is available. 

What is questionable is the ability of the vehicle to charge the battery. Newer vehicles use a "smart" alternator charging circuit. The higher voltage of the LiFePO4 battery makes the alternator think the vehicle's start battery is charged, so it loafs, drawing power from your house (trailer) battery. You may find you start with a fully charged house battery and arrive with it significantly lower. For that, you need to use a DC to DC charger. I was using the Renogy 20A DC to DC charger with the RPod. I won't need it with the Grey Wolf because I am going to be installing a Renogy MPPT charge controller with dual input. That handles the DC to DC charging from the vehicle as well as the solar from the panels. I have not decided what to do with the DC to DC charger yet. 
StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,...

ouR escaPOD mods
Former RPod 179
Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS
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