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EV experience so far
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Linda&Gino View Drop Down
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Posts: 32 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Linda&Gino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: EV experience so far
    Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 8:31am
Personally, I think an EV is more reliable since it has fewer parts than an ICE vehicle. We are looking at EVs for my wife at this moment since her Hyundai's knock sensor detected failing crank bearings and is basically useless until the dealer installs a new motor. An EV would never have that problem.

That being said, and being this is an Rpod/travel trailer site, until manufacturers come up with a cost effect way for all electric technology to be used in a TV with a suitable range, there will always be an ICE on a TV whether it is a hybrid or not. Sure, in time there will be an all electric TV option, but for most of us, time is not on our side. We purchased our current rig with the understanding that it will be our last given our current age. 
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 8:46am
I don't think you can lump together all ev's and say they're more or less reliable any more than you could do that for all turbos or all diesels etc. its going to go by make and model. 

The Bolt has had a very bad reliablity history  because of the huge battery recall, one of the most expensive in history. Im betting on that being behind GM and LG, I think they would go to great lengths never to have that happen again. I have no idea about any of the other EV's except the Nissan Leaf because all of them are way out of my price range so I didn't research them.  I rejected the Leaf because it still uses the Japanese standard charge port that's not going to be the North American standard in future so its going to be hard to find charging stations for it.

Re the power electronics in an EV vs a gasser there are a couple additional items. There is a variable speed motor drive, essentially an inverter that creates 3 phase output from the high voltage battery.The output is varies in frequency to adjust the speed of the motor and whether it acts as a motor or generator for regen braking. There is also an electric a/c compressor rather than a belt drive one. And there is a 120/240 Vac  battery charger on board. 

Those same components (except the charger) are in my Prius and all the other hybrids, so there is a 25 year history on them now. The plug in hybrids have the charger too.  The history has been good after a few early years of problems, but again most of that history is with Toyotas so its validity for predicting what will happen with a GM product is about zero.

As for all the other electronics, there are a ton of gizmos, cameras, displays, warning systems, etc in the Bolt, but as far as I know all that stuff is in the gassers now too. I'd honestly just as soon have a simpler vehicle but its just the stuff consumers expect these days I guess. 
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Linda&Gino View Drop Down
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Posts: 32 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Linda&Gino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 11:28am
Originally posted by offgrid

I don't think you can lump together all ev's and say they're more or less reliable any more than you could do that for all turbos or all diesels etc. its going to go by make and model. 

Well, actually I can because it's my opinion LOL and I can say it all day long. Now whether anyone wants to hear it is another story.

Frankly, I find the analysis-paralysis that goes into the researching reliability to be time mostly wasted. I have owned vehicles and equipment that are supposedly "reliable" only to have those them fail spectacularly. I have also owned items that are supposed to be unreliable and have had them out perform expectations and estimated life expectancy. I may glance through reviews and evaluations but ultimately that data does not carry much weight in my final decision.

If we all sought total reliability, we would still be swinging stone axes.
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2629 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GlueGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 11:34am
In theory, EVs should be more reliable, if only because of the reduced complexity. I would expect new EVs might have "teething pains" because of all the new systems(like regenerative braking and lithium battery issues (just to mention a couple off the top of my head).

I know early Teslas were rightly criticized for many of the fit and finish issues they had (and were extensively discussed by critics like Munroe). I was critical of CR for lumping fit and finish issues under the umbrella of "reliability", but who knows.

I'm also pretty sure that a Tesla motor has more than 3 phases, but not sure how many. Martin Eberhard is a friend and a neighbor of mine (Martin and his friend Marc Tarpenning are the actual founders of Tesla, NOT Elon.). 

I knew about Tesla (through him and some neighbors) way before Elon was involved. During one of our talks together, he told to me about the multi-phase motor being one of the innovations they were working on.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Linda&Gino

Originally posted by offgrid

I don't think you can lump together all ev's and say they're more or less reliable any more than you could do that for all turbos or all diesels etc. its going to go by make and model. 

Well, actually I can because it's my opinion LOL and I can say it all day long. Now whether anyone wants to hear it is another story.

Frankly, I find the analysis-paralysis that goes into the researching reliability to be time mostly wasted. I have owned vehicles and equipment that are supposedly "reliable" only to have those them fail spectacularly. I have also owned items that are supposed to be unreliable and have had them out perform expectations and estimated life expectancy. I may glance through reviews and evaluations but ultimately that data does not carry much weight in my final decision.

If we all sought total reliability, we would still be swinging stone axes.

Sorry, I intended the impersonal or generic form of "you".  A weakness of the English language is the ambiguity of some of our pronouns. Of course you, personally, can hold any opinion you want to. 

I bet the leather thongs or whatever stone age man used to attach their axe heads to the handles  weren't that reliable. Gotta be ready to duck those flying axe heads or risk a broken noggin...
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

In theory, EVs should be more reliable, if only because of the reduced complexity. I would expect new EVs might have "teething pains" because of all the new systems(like regenerative braking and lithium battery issues (just to mention a couple off the top of my head).

I know early Teslas were rightly criticized for many of the fit and finish issues they had (and were extensively discussed by critics like Munroe). I was critical of CR for lumping fit and finish issues under the umbrella of "reliability", but who knows.

I'm also pretty sure that a Tesla motor has more than 3 phases, but not sure how many. Martin Eberhard is a friend and a neighbor of mine (Martin and his friend Marc Tarpenning are the actual founders of Tesla, NOT Elon.). 

I knew about Tesla (through him and some neighbors) way before Elon was involved. During one of our talks together, he told to me about the multi-phase motor being one of the innovations they were working on.

The Prius has had regen braking since it was introduced in 1997. Its just weak compared to a pure EV because the electric motor in a hybrid is pretty small.  I think the GM EV1 had it in 1996. 

As far as I can tell the Tesla uses a good old 3 phase induction motor, patented by Nicola Tesla in 1887. The Prius actually has two motors, both are 3 phase, but they have permanent magnet rotors so they're not induction motors. The Bolt also has a PM rotor, not sure if its 3 phase or not but probably. 
 I think the main difference between PMAC and AC induction motors is that the induction motor has to be rotating in order to create a magnetic field in the rotor while the PM motor doesn't. So its a little more efficient and high rpm while the PMAC motor is a bit better at low rpm.  Probably the driver wouldn't notice any difference. 
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2023 at 6:46am
Leaving CO2 emissions aside, here's my other motivation for going electric. 

The oil and gas companies' net income more than doubled in 2022  to over $4 trilion (with a t). And thats after a record year in 2021. This includes not only companies like Exxon, Chevron, Shell, and BP who are household names in the US but also the nice folks at Saudi Aramco (the largest by far), PetroChina, and Gazprom in Russia. Its all profit, it doesn't cost these guys any more to pump their black stuff out of the ground than it did a year ago.   Its a global not a US issue. 

Why such ridiculous wealth flowing to these guys, while so many folks with limited income struggle to buy enough gas just to get to their jobs? In Europe they are imposing windfall profit taxes to try to address some of this imbalance, but these guys have armies of accountants and tax attorneys expert at showing  the profits in whatever jurisdiction is the most favorable.  

So I smile when I put in my Bolt because thats a teeny bit less money and power I'm sending to these clowns. In the meantime the entire global lithium battery industry (revenue, not profit) was worth about 50 billion last year, or about 1% of Big Oil's profits (not revenue). Doesn't even move the needle yet, but that doesn't stop the oil and gas spending tens of millions trying to make us thinks its a problem. 

I have a simple approach I use to try to sift through all the nonsense. Its not always right but its a good starting point. If a PR firm is saying it, they're lying. If there are two PR firms saying  opposite things then they're both lying, but the bigger liar is the one getting the most funding because you have to repeat the bigger lie louder and more often to get people to believe it. Just ask the all time master of PR, Joseph Goebbels, if you can raise him from the dead. Come to think of it, lets not.....
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2629 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GlueGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2023 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by offgrid

The Prius has had regen braking since it was introduced in 1997. Its just weak compared to a pure EV because the electric motor in a hybrid is pretty small.  I think the GM EV1 had it in 1996. 

As far as I can tell the Tesla uses a good old 3 phase induction motor, patented by Nicola Tesla in 1887. The Prius actually has two motors, both are 3 phase, but they have permanent magnet rotors so they're not induction motors. The Bolt also has a PM rotor, not sure if its 3 phase or not but probably. 
 I think the main difference between PMAC and AC induction motors is that the induction motor has to be rotating in order to create a magnetic field in the rotor while the PM motor doesn't. So its a little more efficient and high rpm while the PMAC motor is a bit better at low rpm.  Probably the driver wouldn't notice any difference.

That's not what Martin explained to me. Their motor does use permanent magnets and it's an induction motor.
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Posts: 1042 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hogone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2023 at 1:55pm
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Posts: 275 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gpokluda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2023 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by offgrid

...So I smile when I put in my Bolt because thats a teeny bit less money and power I'm sending to these clowns. In the meantime the entire global lithium battery industry (revenue, not profit) was worth about 50 billion last year, or about 1% of Big Oil's profits (not revenue). Doesn't even move the needle yet, but that doesn't stop the oil and gas spending tens of millions trying to make us thinks its a problem. 

Life is full of contradictions and a person can drive them self insane trying to balance all of the causes out there and assign significance to their lives. Truth be told, none of us have it all figured out and never will. The best we can hope for is to be good human beings to each other and do what we think is right for our community.
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