R-pod Owners Forum Homepage

This site is free to use.
Donations benefit a non-profit Girls Softball organization

Forum Home Forum Home > Non-pod Discussion Forums > General non-pod discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: EV experience so far
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

EV experience so far

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 8>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: EV experience so far
    Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

In theory, EVs should be more reliable, if only because of the reduced complexity. I would expect new EVs might have "teething pains" because of all the new systems(like regenerative braking and lithium battery issues (just to mention a couple off the top of my head).

I know early Teslas were rightly criticized for many of the fit and finish issues they had (and were extensively discussed by critics like Munroe). I was critical of CR for lumping fit and finish issues under the umbrella of "reliability", but who knows.

I'm also pretty sure that a Tesla motor has more than 3 phases, but not sure how many. Martin Eberhard is a friend and a neighbor of mine (Martin and his friend Marc Tarpenning are the actual founders of Tesla, NOT Elon.). 

I knew about Tesla (through him and some neighbors) way before Elon was involved. During one of our talks together, he told to me about the multi-phase motor being one of the innovations they were working on.

The Prius has had regen braking since it was introduced in 1997. Its just weak compared to a pure EV because the electric motor in a hybrid is pretty small.  I think the GM EV1 had it in 1996. 

As far as I can tell the Tesla uses a good old 3 phase induction motor, patented by Nicola Tesla in 1887. The Prius actually has two motors, both are 3 phase, but they have permanent magnet rotors so they're not induction motors. The Bolt also has a PM rotor, not sure if its 3 phase or not but probably. 
 I think the main difference between PMAC and AC induction motors is that the induction motor has to be rotating in order to create a magnetic field in the rotor while the PM motor doesn't. So its a little more efficient and high rpm while the PMAC motor is a bit better at low rpm.  Probably the driver wouldn't notice any difference. 
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Linda&Gino

Originally posted by offgrid

I don't think you can lump together all ev's and say they're more or less reliable any more than you could do that for all turbos or all diesels etc. its going to go by make and model. 

Well, actually I can because it's my opinion LOL and I can say it all day long. Now whether anyone wants to hear it is another story.

Frankly, I find the analysis-paralysis that goes into the researching reliability to be time mostly wasted. I have owned vehicles and equipment that are supposedly "reliable" only to have those them fail spectacularly. I have also owned items that are supposed to be unreliable and have had them out perform expectations and estimated life expectancy. I may glance through reviews and evaluations but ultimately that data does not carry much weight in my final decision.

If we all sought total reliability, we would still be swinging stone axes.

Sorry, I intended the impersonal or generic form of "you".  A weakness of the English language is the ambiguity of some of our pronouns. Of course you, personally, can hold any opinion you want to. 

I bet the leather thongs or whatever stone age man used to attach their axe heads to the handles  weren't that reliable. Gotta be ready to duck those flying axe heads or risk a broken noggin...
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
GlueGuy View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 2017
Location: N. California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2630
Post Options Post Options   Quote GlueGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 11:34am
In theory, EVs should be more reliable, if only because of the reduced complexity. I would expect new EVs might have "teething pains" because of all the new systems(like regenerative braking and lithium battery issues (just to mention a couple off the top of my head).

I know early Teslas were rightly criticized for many of the fit and finish issues they had (and were extensively discussed by critics like Munroe). I was critical of CR for lumping fit and finish issues under the umbrella of "reliability", but who knows.

I'm also pretty sure that a Tesla motor has more than 3 phases, but not sure how many. Martin Eberhard is a friend and a neighbor of mine (Martin and his friend Marc Tarpenning are the actual founders of Tesla, NOT Elon.). 

I knew about Tesla (through him and some neighbors) way before Elon was involved. During one of our talks together, he told to me about the multi-phase motor being one of the innovations they were working on.
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
Back to Top
Linda&Gino View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jun 2017
Location: New Mexico
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32
Post Options Post Options   Quote Linda&Gino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 11:28am
Originally posted by offgrid

I don't think you can lump together all ev's and say they're more or less reliable any more than you could do that for all turbos or all diesels etc. its going to go by make and model. 

Well, actually I can because it's my opinion LOL and I can say it all day long. Now whether anyone wants to hear it is another story.

Frankly, I find the analysis-paralysis that goes into the researching reliability to be time mostly wasted. I have owned vehicles and equipment that are supposedly "reliable" only to have those them fail spectacularly. I have also owned items that are supposed to be unreliable and have had them out perform expectations and estimated life expectancy. I may glance through reviews and evaluations but ultimately that data does not carry much weight in my final decision.

If we all sought total reliability, we would still be swinging stone axes.
gpokluda
2017 Rpod R179 SOLD!
2022 Escape 5.0 TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 EB3.5
Triumph T120 Bonneville
Back to Top
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 8:46am
I don't think you can lump together all ev's and say they're more or less reliable any more than you could do that for all turbos or all diesels etc. its going to go by make and model. 

The Bolt has had a very bad reliablity history  because of the huge battery recall, one of the most expensive in history. Im betting on that being behind GM and LG, I think they would go to great lengths never to have that happen again. I have no idea about any of the other EV's except the Nissan Leaf because all of them are way out of my price range so I didn't research them.  I rejected the Leaf because it still uses the Japanese standard charge port that's not going to be the North American standard in future so its going to be hard to find charging stations for it.

Re the power electronics in an EV vs a gasser there are a couple additional items. There is a variable speed motor drive, essentially an inverter that creates 3 phase output from the high voltage battery.The output is varies in frequency to adjust the speed of the motor and whether it acts as a motor or generator for regen braking. There is also an electric a/c compressor rather than a belt drive one. And there is a 120/240 Vac  battery charger on board. 

Those same components (except the charger) are in my Prius and all the other hybrids, so there is a 25 year history on them now. The plug in hybrids have the charger too.  The history has been good after a few early years of problems, but again most of that history is with Toyotas so its validity for predicting what will happen with a GM product is about zero.

As for all the other electronics, there are a ton of gizmos, cameras, displays, warning systems, etc in the Bolt, but as far as I know all that stuff is in the gassers now too. I'd honestly just as soon have a simpler vehicle but its just the stuff consumers expect these days I guess. 


1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
Linda&Gino View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jun 2017
Location: New Mexico
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32
Post Options Post Options   Quote Linda&Gino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 8:31am
Personally, I think an EV is more reliable since it has fewer parts than an ICE vehicle. We are looking at EVs for my wife at this moment since her Hyundai's knock sensor detected failing crank bearings and is basically useless until the dealer installs a new motor. An EV would never have that problem.

That being said, and being this is an Rpod/travel trailer site, until manufacturers come up with a cost effect way for all electric technology to be used in a TV with a suitable range, there will always be an ICE on a TV whether it is a hybrid or not. Sure, in time there will be an all electric TV option, but for most of us, time is not on our side. We purchased our current rig with the understanding that it will be our last given our current age. 
gpokluda
2017 Rpod R179 SOLD!
2022 Escape 5.0 TA
2022 Ford F150 4X4 EB3.5
Triumph T120 Bonneville
Back to Top
David and Danette View Drop Down
podders Helping podders - pHp
podders Helping podders - pHp
Avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1215
Post Options Post Options   Quote David and Danette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 7:06am
  Didn't Consumer Reports just say that over all EV's are not as reliable ICEV's? I remember while having a vehicle serviced at the dealership the service advisor told me the majority of vehicles in for service are electronic related. So I don't know which has more electronics the EV's or ICEV's so I think of relability when I am buying a vehicle perhaps in time the electronic part will be more reliable but right now it seems the more electronics the least reliable. If I am wrong hope I am corrected because the main reason that would keep me from buying EV is their reliability.
2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-              
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019)
2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014)
Middle Tn
2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab


Back to Top
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 5:07am
Originally posted by hogone

i think i got all caught up in this raquet of recycling which obviously is a large percentage a scam......and as far as padding the pockets of others, i am by no means ready to be padding the pockets of the battery makers for ev's.  jon

Of course, when it comes time for you to buy your next vehicle you're free to get anything you want.

But before you decide that shouldn't be electric, consider that practically all the vehicle manufacturers are on board with the conversion to evs. They wouldn't do that if they didn't see a profit in it. These are huge companies with lots of clout to drive and keep their battery and other costs down. You and I have no equivalent leverage over fuel prices. We go to the pump and pay what its set at, or we don't drive. So I don't think we need to worry much about what Ford, Tesla, GM, VW, Toyota etc are paying for their batteries. They will be sure to get the good deals.  In many cases because the are partnered with the battery manufacturers. 

My Bolt, batteries and all, already cost me about the same as an equivalent ICE vehicle (thanks GM for not gouging your customers like Tesla has been up till now). And we're only at the beginning. Li battery cost has dropped like a stone over the past few years and continues to go down. The rest of an EV drivetrain is simpler and cheaper than a gasser's. So overall EVs will soon be cheaper to buy and offer better performance and reliability than ICE vehicles. Tesla just had to drop their prices dramatically, they are no longer the only game in town.

Then there are the much lower energy costs. I'm paying about 4 cents a mile in my Bolt, half what my (very efficient) Prius cost me.  So, buy an ev because its cheaper,more fun to drive,  and you get a better ownership experience, let the car manufacturer worry about battery sourcing. 

Or by all means don't buy one and stick with a gasser because it meets your needs better (like towing range) for now. No one is forcing you to go electric. 
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
offgrid View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2018
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5290
Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2023 at 4:34am
Originally posted by GlueGuy

Originally posted by offgrid

I agree that there should be regulatory controls, but the burden should be on the manufacturers not the public. If they're producing a product they need to be responsible for it cradle to cradle. 
 
Not to pick nits (but I am), I think you meant cradle to grave?

Separately, I think that the number of times "leaving it up to the manufacturers" has succeeded has been a distinct minority.

I did mean "cradle to cradle",  "Grave" implies that the material ends up in the landfill rather than getting reused. So you're only looking at the first half of the process.  If its getting recycled it becomes feedstock for a new product (the cradle).  So "cradle to cradle" captures the whole process. 

And for sure, there should be no "leaving it up to the manufacturers", they won't do anything unless required to. As others have said, this is a place where regulations are needed. 
1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
Back to Top
hogone View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 2013
Location: St. Louis
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1043
Post Options Post Options   Quote hogone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2023 at 2:36pm
i think i got all caught up in this raquet of recycling which obviously is a large percentage a scam......and as far as padding the pockets of others, i am by no means ready to be padding the pockets of the battery makers for ev's.  jon
Jon & Pam
2013 RP177
2010 F150
2017 HD Streetglide
2009 HD Lowrider
CHEESEHEAD
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 8>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.64
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz