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Nitrogen Dioxide

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lostagain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nitrogen Dioxide
    Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 10:12am
It's a high efficiency Mitsubishi.  It brought the room up to a very comfortable 68°F quickly and quietly.  When I get the next Eversource bill, we'll see how it does compared to the radiant oil electric unit.  

As for the leasing of equipment, between Eversource and the leasing company, the economic benefit left over for the consumer is negligible, hardly worth the bother.  The big companies always make sure they get the pig's portion of the benefit.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote EchoGale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 11:00am
I have a question about these studies that has bothered me for a while and i bet one of you will have an answer.  I can never tell what kind of "gas" they're using in the studies and suspect it's mostly "natural gas" not propane. I use propane in both my house and, obvs, my camper.  Are the problems the same with both kinds of "gas?"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 11:14am
Originally posted by offgrid

 

Id put one in tomorrow except that I heat with wood. Costs me nothing except a ton of labor felling, bucking, splitting, stacking, and managing the woodstove  (and some chains for the chainsaw). So I'm going to put off the new heat pump investment till I get too old to run away fast enough to keep the tree from falling on me. Hopefully I'll know that in advance....



Well said, fortunately we have a seemingly endless supply of wood in northern Michigan and thanks to the EAB, a lot of white ash trees are dead, but still standing, allowing it to 'cure' for instant burning once it is cut, carried off, dumped off trailer, split, stacked, unstacked and brought to the stove, and finally burned.  Also a lot of other wood as well, maple, beech, ironwood, birch, that oft times may be laying on the ground and at certain points of decomposition so those have to be cut up first before they become one with the earth again.  Regardless, kudos for you in using wood, a great way to keep away from doctors, hospitals, ect.  and keeping your body 'fit.'
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 12:27pm
Yep, and if you burn standing  dead wood (as opposed to what were living trees) youre not contributing to global warming because as you say  the wood was going to decompose anyway. Decomposition is just slow burning, so it puts the CO2 the tree absorbed right back in the atmosphere. Wood burning is not a solution in urban areas though because of particulate pollution. But out in the boonies it's fine.

EchoGale, the NO2 is a product of combustion. the nitrogen isnt in the fuel, it's in the air, so a little of it gets oxidized to form NO2 when you burn pretty much any fuel. NO2 from burning gasoline is what used to form all that nasty brown LA smog back before cars got good pollution  controls. And BTW it's formed from burning wood too. The difference is that only a cook stove or unvented space heater throws the stuff right into the house rather than outdoors. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 1:28pm
In the old days, gas stoves used to have the ovens vented to outside.  Then they stopped doing it in the late 50's or so.  I wonder why the stove manufacturers and building codes switched?  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 1:48pm
You didn't grow up around here. There were unvented gas stoves in many places. The flame would be at the base of a flat ceramic textured plate. The flame would heat it to glowing. The radiant heat off of that heated the room. That was before oxygen depletion sensors, but also before houses started to be built with vapor barriers and gaskets that sealed them up so there were always ways for fresh air to get in and fumes to get out.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by lostagain

Jato, this is getting pretty religious and political.  I don't question for a moment your sincerity in the opinions you hold, but they are opinions based on your deeply held beliefs.  Whether they conform to an objective assessment of the "intent" of the those who wrote our constitution is a matter for debate.  The same is true for Mr. Morris.  He was born in 1810 and by the time he reached 18 years of age, the founding fathers were long gone.  It is a certainty that he never spoke to any of them about what they intended.  His writings are opinions gleaned from what he believed they wanted, but that may not necessarily be the case.  It would not be surprising to find that his deeply and sincerely held religious beliefs affected the formation of his his opinions.  My readings about the formation of our constitution and my study and practice of law since 1973 have led me to different opinions about what our founders intended, but my opinions are just that: opinions, not facts.



I am glad you brought this point up.  I am not trying to be 'religious' or 'political' here as the beauty of this book is that the majority of this book is a compilation of historical written documents written by the original authors.  He gives thanks to the Librarians of the Young Men's Mercantile Library Association, the Mechanics' Institute Libraries of Cincinnati, the State Library of Ohio, the Historical and Astor Libraries of New York, the Mercantile Library and Library Association of Philadelphia, the Libraries of Congress, and of the Interior Department and Chief Clerk in the Department of State.  What Morris did here was take numerous written and recorded documents (many found in the Library of Congress), many times without comment and put them together in a readable form.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gpokluda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 2:16pm
Great point, StephenH. As I read through this thread, I was thinking how things were when I grew up in the 60's and 70's. We had a gas stove and the pilot lights were always on as was the oven pilot and the one for the  griddle. That's how we used to defrost meat, or anything else, before the microwave became a household appliance. We would set whatever it was to be defrosted in the cast iron dutch oven and set it on top of a burner in the morning. It would be defrosted in time to make dinner. No respiratory issues with any of my 5 siblings but of course our house was somewhat drafty, so that probably helped. 

FWIW, we also drank out of garden hoses, road bikes without helmets, played with lawn darts,  and rode in the back of pickups. It's amazing we even survived Smile 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 2:59pm
StephenH, I grew up in the far west and when I worked for a remodeling contractor in San Francisco, we were always contending with the vent pipes for the ovens of stoves.  Even the radiant ceramic heaters and regular space were vented.  But, there was certainly a lot of air coming in through leaky doors and windows providing, as you observe, good air exchange.  Now with the houses we're building here in the Habitat project in CT, they're about as airtight as one can get.  They are built to the new air leakage code:  C402.t (Air Leakage) of the 2021 International Energy Conservation Code. (IECC).  A positive air pressure test must be passed that is so tight combustion products could well become a problem without adequate venting.

Jato, I respect the strength and sincerity of your beliefs, but you just made my point.  Mr. Morris gave us his interpretation of the sources he consulted from libraries.  All are his opinions about what was in the mind of other people based upon his interpretation of what others had written about what the they thought were the intentions of the founding fathers.  In the legal business, we call that hearsay and speculation and it is not admissible evidence to prove a fact.  Probably some of the people who were involved in founding of our country shared your and Mr. Morris' views, but there were many who did not.  Many of the founders were aghast at the idea of any religion whatsoever being involved in any form in our governance.  We can cherry pick the evidence of the original writings of the "founders" and claim it supports any position we may advocate, but it would still only be our opinions.  I am not aware of one single actual "founder" who specifically wrote that his or her intent was x in writing some clause in the constitution.  And even if there was, it would prove nothing in regard to the intent of the other writers or founders, whomever they may be.  We can glean what we please from their writings, but there is simply no reliable first had evidence that all, or most, of the founders specifically agreed as you opine.  I think we have beaten this dead horse of religion and politics to death.  It is really a violation of the rules of the board in which we agree not to discuss religion or politics.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 3:54pm
Also having grown up in California, my experience was the same as LA's. Gas ovens and space heaters were vented. Only the stove burners weren't. 

And no central heat. I well recall standing on top of the gas floor heaters in my parent's house trying to get warm on a chilly morning. And yes, NorCal can get pretty chilly at night in the winter. Uninsulated walls and single pane glass. We didn't have enough money to run the floor heaters at night  so it was pretty common to see condensation from my breath when I woke up  in the morning. That's what warm blankets were for. 

But nothing compared to what my mom who grew up in the UP in the 20s and 30s had to deal with. Outhouse at 40 below....

First World problems. No one worries about NO2 in their house when it's all they can do to not freeze to death.
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