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Changing times

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David and Danette View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote David and Danette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Changing times
    Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 12:13am
  While camping I met a older couple who have been coming to Florida for many years from the New England area to camp for the Winter. And we talked about the restrictions and changes that have been made for camping in the Federal parks like reservations only and limited days you can camp and this past week a $7.00 rate increase per night for camping. They don't own a computer and now they have to call and make reservations and take what ever site is given to them. And I thought about all this and the direction camping at campgrounds is going with greater restrictions. With higher prices for campers and fees to camp I thought camping is becoming less accessible for some campers especially older retired people with limited income and younger families. Then I thought about with more government restrictions with vehicle emissions in the amount of pollution they produce campers will become smaller liter weight with smaller vehicles with less power to tow them. The big fifth wheeled campers will become like dinosaurs fading away in the past and small campers will become more popular and maybe more people choosing to camp in a tent rather owning a trailer to camp in. I am curious as to the direction camping may go in the future I myself have been giving thought to a smaller liter weight camper than we have now. The older couple that I met from New England have been camping in a old 13 foot Scamp camper towing it with a Hyundai 2.0 engine and they are very happy with their camper and do not want to change.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 3:05am
The more people there are the more congested the parks are going to be. When I was a kid my family could just drive up to Yosemite Valley from the CA coast and get a campsite, no reservations required. You can't get within miles of the place now. The population of CA has more than doubled over that time.

I agree those behemoths will likely go the way of the dinosaurs. I for one won't miss them at all. The little Tab and Tag trailers from Nucamp are very nice if you want to go smaller. Depending on what your expectations are they have everything a couple would need.

Most of the energy use towing is due to aerodynamic drag not weight. The teardrops, Airstream, Casita and rPod shapes are not really very aerodynamically efficient, so there is going to be a new generation of highly aerodynamic trailers as we transition to electric vehicles. Check out the Alto line from Safari Condo as an early example of what is possible. I particularly like the A2124 model.

Designs like the smaller Hi-Lo's might make a comeback, and the old standby tent trailer isn't a bad way to go for family camping.

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jato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 7:04am
At this point I have great doubts about the sensibility of owning an electric vehicle.  Using a lot of rare earth materials to produce, they have a much higher carbon footprint on our ecology than the old gas powered vehicles.  Where and how does one recycle all these batteries when they expire?  Seven years ago a neighbor of ours had to get new batteries on his 8 year old Prius.  Pricetag back then (2015) was just south of $ 6000.  Those batteries don't just evaporate or go away.

Also if you're an American citizen who owns an electric car 80% + of that electricity  comes from non-renewable resources (or fossil fuels) such as coal, oil, and gas, you're most likely going to be charging your electric car using resources that damage the planet.  Not an easy fix regardless of which path you take.

I appreciate the concerns about camping.  Until retirement 3 years ago we only camped April-May or September-November and until the last couple years never had problems going to national parks or having to reserve to get a spot.  Not any more unless you boondock or go to national forest campgrounds or similar which is what we normally do now.
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GlueGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 4:21pm
A couple of things to add to what jato is saying. 

First, an EV makes a whole ton of sense if is mainly a commuter or get around town kind of vehicle. Save your ICE vehicle for longer trips, but if your round trip is < 180 miles or so, the EV is a great way to go. You will never have to stop at a gas station again.

How much of the energy you use depends a lot on where you live and/or if you have solar panels on your home. Several of the people we know with an EV recharge their EV for free (sort of) with the solar they get from their roof. If you don't have solar of your own, a large percentage of it is from renewable sources if you live in California (wind, solar, and hydro).

The technology to recycle lithium batteries is evolving. Clearly if they are not recyclable, that is a loser in the long term. I believe recycling will become viable in the next few years.

Finally, the cost of lithium batteries has come down by more than 50% in the last 5 or so years. It's following a similar curve as solar (which is now < 50 cents a watt in usable quantities).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lostagain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 5:10pm
                                   "Thirty Foot Trailer"

The old ways are changing you cannot deny
The day of the traveler's over
There's nowhere to gang and there's nowhere to bide
So farewell to the life of the rover

Goodbye to the tent and the old caravan
To the tinker, the rover, the traveling man
And goodbye tae the thirty foot trailer

Farewell tae the cant and the traveling tongue
Farewell tae the Romany talking
The buying, the selling, the old fortune telling
The knock on the door and the hawking

You got to move fast to keep up with the times
For these days a man cannot dander
There's a bylaw to say you maun be on your way
And another to say ye can't wander

Farewell to the blossom and besoms of broom
Farewell tae the creels and the baskets
The folk of today would far rather pay
For a thing that is made oot o plastic

The old ways are passing and soon will be gone
And progress is aye a big factor
Its sent to afflict us and when they evict us
They tow us away wi a tractor

Farewell tae the pony, the cob, and the mare
The reins and the harness are idle
You don't need a strap when you're breaking up scrap
So farewell tae the bit and the bridle

Farewell tae the fields where we've sweated and toiled
At pulling and hauling and lifting
They'll soon have machines and the traveling queens
And their menfolk had better be shifting


Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by jato



At this point I have great doubts about the sensibility of owning an electric vehicle.  Using a lot of rare earth materials to produce, they have a much higher carbon footprint on our ecology than the old gas powered vehicles.  Where and how does one recycle all these batteries when they expire?  Seven years ago a neighbor of ours had to get new batteries on his 8 year old Prius.  Pricetag back then (2015) was just south of $ 6000.  Those batteries don't just evaporate or go away.
Also if you're an American citizen who owns an electric car 80% + of that electricity 
comes from non-renewable resources (or fossil fuels) such as coal, oil,
and gas, you're most likely going to be charging your electric car
using resources that damage the planet.  Not an easy fix regardless of which path you take.
I appreciate the concerns about camping.  Until retirement 3 years ago we only camped April-May or September-November and until the last couple years never had problems going to national parks or having to reserve to get a spot.  Not any more unless you boondock or go to national forest campgrounds or similar which is what we normally do now.




The reality is that EVs produce less GHGs (greenhouse gasses) over the life of the vehicle than ICE vehicles. That includes both manufacturing and plant emissions, even in countries like China which are heavy coal users. That's because power plants are more efficient than ICEs are.

Using renewables and nuclear in manufacturing and charging of course greatly improves this. That's one problem with a lot of the fossil fuel industry funded studies, they assume business as usual on the energy production side. That is not what's happening, renewables are the cheapest source of electricity now and are displacing fossil plants rapidly.

Then there is the opportunity to aggregate and utilize
the EVs' storage capacity as a resource for grid storage. That is coming soon and will create a virtuous circle, a grid with dispersed storage to absorb more renewables which in turn reduces GHG emissions in the manufacture and operation of the EVs.

In any event, the EV ship has sailed . All the major auto manufacturers have committed to EV production, and there is lots of investment in technology development in battery chemistry and charging infrastructure. 20 years, probably sooner, ICEs will be a rarity.


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furpod View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote furpod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2022 at 1:04pm
They won't be rare at my house. Ever. Wink

Just picked up an Excursion.
6.8 liters of comfy leg room for 8.
Why? you might ask..
Because I CAN!
LOL

The beast..


And it came with this.. more ICE action.. 8 straight holes of fun..



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jato View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2022 at 1:39pm
Love that Excursion.  It makes a Suburban look small by comparison.  That thing is so long it won't fit in my garage. 

Looks like you will have your hands full with the 'older' vehicle on the trailer.
God's pod
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'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2022 at 6:23pm
There will always be afficionados of outdated technologies, that's fine. Heck, my wife has a horse, but she sure doesn't use it for commuting.

A Tesla S Plaid can run the quarters in 9 sec. There is only one "production" car faster, the Rimac Nevera, maybe. So EVs can most definitely be fun.

I for one will not miss pistons, valves, camshafts, crankshafts, oil pumps, carburetors, ignition systems, etc. It's amazing that all those mechanical parts work together at all.

I'm overhauling a Continental O200 aircraft engine right now, what a mess. I look forward to never having to worry about all that stuff ever again. Unfortunately I doubt I'll live long enough to see adequate batteries for aviation use, so I'm stuck with babysitting a 1950's era ICE out on the nose.
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2022 at 8:19pm
Until I can recharge in the same time it takes to refill, an EV will not be practical for when we are towing and traveling out to see our daughters. It takes 5 days to get there already since my wife does not drive and I do all the driving. Adding charging time onto that would mean another day or two to get there. Also one thing not mentioned is that most charging stations are set up for nose-in charging. Unhitching to charge and then re-hitching to continue the trip is not a viable option.
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