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Lithium battery

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Jackash View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jackash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lithium battery
    Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 5:25pm
Has anyone got any experience or advice for switching over to lithium battery for my RPod 195?   
Jackash
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 5:51pm
Not in a 195, but in our 179, you can read about my conversion in my mods (see link in signature).
StephenH
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jackash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 10:51pm
Thanks.  Tons of info there. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2022 at 8:20am
The keys with a lithium conversion are:

place the battery in a heated location, never charge a Lithium battery below freezing temps.

the battery must have a battery management system (BMS) that equalizes cell charge voltage and protects the battery from overcharging. The BMS should come with the battery and is typically internal.

Convert and/or reconfigure all charging sources for Lithium battery use. Those include the on board Ac/DC charger, alternator charging from the tow vehicle, and solar charging if you have that.

The on board lead acid battery charger can be swapped out, and most modern solar charge controllers have a Li setting.

Generally the alternator charging is the most complex to convert. You do not need to run a separate charge circuit, the +12V pin on your 7 way connector will work. You need to run that into a DC/DC converter located in the trailer, before that wire connects to anything else in the trailer. The DC/DC converter should be sized based on the ampacity of your 12V trailer supply. That will typically have a 3O amp breaker so a 20 amp converter would be a good choice.

You will either need to disconnect your 7 way whenever you stop for more than an hour or so or set up that circuit with a relay so it's switched off when the ignition is off (some already are), otherwise the converter will happily continue to charge the Li battery if it is low,discharging your tow vehicle starting battery in the process.

As you can see, much of the cost and most of the work is involved with the charging sources and wiring, not with the Li battery itself, which is getting pretty inexpensive now.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2022 at 8:40am
+1. I chose to run a separate circuit because I thought the original charge wire from the Frontier was inadequate and I wanted to put a battery isolation relay in. I probably could have used the regular wire and just disconnected it to run the DC to DC charger as it does appear that the Frontier would have a relay that is timed to cut that circuit off after a few minutes. I did not realize that at the time. I still would have had a fair amount of work and needed the DC to DC charger anyway.

When I first tried this, I did not have the wiring correct which meant that the battery was trying to charge itself. Since there is no "free" energy or perpetual motion, it was bound to fail. Just be sure to understand how the wiring is run so you don't end up making the same mistake that I did.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jackash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2022 at 10:05am
Thanks for all the info and advice.  Think I am going to pass for now.  What about the “AGM” type batteries?  Anything special to add one of those or is just a straight swap?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote StephenH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2022 at 11:13am
They also are not exactly a straight swap. They do have a little different charging profile than a flooded battery. Also, the analysis I read was that the extra cost of an AGM battery was not really worth it. Your best "bang for the buck" is in two 6V GC2 batteries wired in series to give you 12V. The down side is that the two batteries together will weigh 120 lbs or more.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2022 at 1:59pm
+1. The AGMs (absorbed glass matt) batteries are quite a bit more expensive but perform no better than flooded deep cycle batteries. They are also more sensitive to overcharging (because you can't just take off the caps and add distilled water) so you have a bit lower peak charging voltage. They do have one advantage which is lower maintenance so if you can't bring yourself to check the water level every month or so by all means spend the extra $$$ for the AGM's.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TheBum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2022 at 4:39pm
"Drop in ready" lithium batteries will charge just fine at lead-acid voltage/amperage levels. They just won't fully charge, which has some merits for extending service life. I just purchased a Battle Born lithium battery for my 196.
Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Quote offgrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2022 at 2:29am
ummm.

Battle Born recommends using a high quality ac charger specifically configured for Li batteries. The key concern is not undercharging, which won't hurt a Li battery, (just limits useful capacity) but overcharging during bulk or equalization mode. That is dangerous.

My WFCO failed and took my flooded golf cart batteries up to 16V plus volts. No harm done to those batts, just excessive water consumption, because I caught it before the plates were exposed. But that would be very harmful and dangerous for a Li battery. Battle Born's BMS is designed to prevent that level of overcharging but after my experience I wouldn't want to count on it as the sole line of defense against overcharge.

Battle Born also recommends using a DC/DC converter for alternator charging. They are master distributors for both Progressive Dynamics (ac chargers) and Victron (solar charge controllers and DC/DC converters) so you can get all your hardware from them if you want. PD and Victron both make good products for this application.

I'm not recommending Battle Born as a source though, they are overpriced for my budget. I'd personally go with StephenH's lower cost approach. Either way will work fine, but you do need to take some care in a Li conversion. I wouldn't recommend just dropping a Li battery into an rpod without other modifications.
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