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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tires Again!
    Posted: 23 Jan 2021 at 6:15pm
This article by a purported tire engineer suggests that the actual axle load should be a maximum of 85% of the tire load rating for travel trailers. That is the equivalent of an 18% tire safety factor over axle load. That seems like a very reasonable minimum spec to me. As my 179 actual axle load runs very close to max axle rating I just use the axle rating, other rpods might have more wiggle room between actual and rated axle load,

There is very little downside in going with higher rated tired until you get to tires that are so stiff they might start shaking the trailer to pieces. In the case of an rpod those would typically be load range E’s I think.

https://www.rvtiresafety.net/2017/10/safety-margin.html?m=1
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podrunner View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2021 at 10:21am
This  has been an interesting read.  A lot of very informative and useful info here.  It is good to see a discussion on tires that does not start our with "get Goodyear Endurance tires ASAP or both tires will blow and you will have a catastrophic accident". As stated, I believe that most tires issues are caused by low pressure or over loading the trailer.  It is amusing to me to see all the modifications and stuff people add to their trailers.  I suspect that many trailers are traveling down the road over the recommended weight.  Result is blown tires and then the "china bomb" discussion starts all over again.  For me:  205/75/14 Carlisle load range D
Happy trails....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2021 at 11:00am
Originally posted by podrunner

This  has been an interesting read.  A lot of very informative and useful info here.  It is good to see a discussion on tires that does not start our with "get Goodyear Endurance tires ASAP or both tires will blow and you will have a catastrophic accident". As stated, I believe that most tires issues are caused by low pressure or over loading the trailer.  It is amusing to me to see all the modifications and stuff people add to their trailers.  I suspect that many trailers are traveling down the road over the recommended weight.  Result is blown tires and then the "china bomb" discussion starts all over again.  For me:  205/75/14 Carlisle load range D
Happy trails....


+1  100%  Even though I have traveled with china tires for the past 10 years with over 36,000+ miles on 2 sets of tires with NO issues I have always noted a fair amount of flex on the side wall with the "C" rated tire.  This spring I plan to upgrade to the Carlisle "D" tires as my Hartland tires hit the 5 year anniversary mark last November.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2021 at 1:44pm
I bought a pair of Carlisle load range D tires for my 172.  They were noticeably better in ride and mileage.  I'd consider buying Carlisle again.  But the little country of origin lettering said "Made in China."  I think it's really a function of how serious the company is about quality control, not just the country of origin.  Carlisle and Goodyear are much better about focusing on quality control.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2021 at 6:49pm
I'm on same page as LostAgain.  I have owned a bunch of Carlisle tires.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2021 at 11:09am
I think I'm on the same page. At this point, it would be more work to find tires that are 100% domestic, than to just go with the best quality tires you can find. 

However, as one tire guy explained to me:

"Tires are a tough product to differentiate. They all look the same from the outside, and it's what's inside that counts."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2021 at 12:49pm
Perhaps that's why it's better to stick with quality brands.  Their reputations in the market depend on maintaining high quality.  Quality rubber compounding, consistent manufacturing processes, and consistent wire and fabric are essential in building a good tire.  Off brand companies are always tempted to cut corners on all three in order to maintain their price points.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2021 at 1:25pm
Corporations are constantly trying to cut costs wherever they can, it is in their nature to do so. Marketing has the objective of increasing price revenue. Most brand marketing is based on the fear of making a mistake. Branding becomes a shortcut for people who don’t have time to research a topic thoroughly. A classic one is gasoline. It’s all the same stuff, only the octane rating matters. Another is monster cable. People paid 10x for cables that sounded absolutely no different out of fear of losing audio quality.

As many have said, most of the problems with trailer tires are readily attributed to the oems. including FR, selecting marginally rated tires for the application. Others can be explained by improper maintenance. It is much easier to blame a problem on the tire than to take responsibility for the failure. So, barring convincing data to the contrary, I will continue buying conservatively rated tires from low cost manufacturers. I do the same with everything I buy unless there is clear data to the contrary, for example with auto makes. I buy Toyotas because of their strong reliability record and resale value. I never buy a luxury brand of anything unless that is the only way to get a feature I need. Saves a lot of money and has served me well so far.

Others are of course free to choose differently with your hard earned dollars.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2021 at 2:46pm
Indeed, all businesses, corporate or otherwise are always looking for ways to be more cost efficient.  But they also balance their quality reputation in the market place with the effects of cost cutting and try to not damage the characteristic that makes their widget more desirable in the market than the next company's.  Certainly where they can create product differentiation based on fictional differences, many take advantage of it.  But where a company diminishes the quality of a product, the market soon figures it out and responds with either lower purchasing volume or demanding price reductions.  

For example, with a product that I am personally familiar, escalators, the quality difference between the international brands and knockoffs is substantial despite the fact that the knockoffs are often copies of the major brands.  The knockoff manufacturers don't have the technical capacity to design the equipment.  Often they cut corners to offer a lower price and they source parts from questionable manufactures that look okay until you do some destructive testing and find the metallurgy seriously lacking.  If you want to see some videos of the consequences of going cheap on escalators, do a YouTube search.  I won't post the links because they are way too graphic.

The same situation exists with tires.  There are lots of shortcuts that can be taken building tires, from poor rubber compounds that can't withstand the heat, to poor layup on tire mandrils, inadequate cooking of the tire, and poor sourcing of the components.  Those tires all look the same to the casual observer, but when put to the test the failure rates are uncomfortably higher.  Having defended tire failure cases, I will never buy cheap knockoff tires.  The cost difference is just not worth the risk.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2021 at 9:55am
I doubt that very many corporations today will knowingly choose to increase costs to improve their product quality unless there is an independent data source or threat of litigation keeping them honest. Much cheaper just to spend marketing dollars. The marketplace is not that efficient, as this debate of trailer tires shows, it’s not easy without that independent data source to figure out which products have better quality and reliability.

The good news is that most manufacturers have figured out by now that quality reduces costs. The Toyota Production System, now more generically known as lean manufacturing, has been adopted globally by most serious manufacturing companies.

As for the pejorative term “knockoff”, that implies copying has taken place. I don’t think that is an appropriate label for a tire manufacturer selling their products under their own brand. No one is mistaking their Chinese tires for Goodyear or Carlisle tires. We are buying an inexpensive tire, not some fake copy of another tire brand.

If there was independent data available for trailer tires similar to what is available for passenger car tires then we could all make more informed choices. I use Consumer Reports for info on passenger car tires and have wound up with South Korean brands Kumho and Hankook recently, and been very satisfied. Good value at a good price. If there is similar data for trailer tires I haven’t seen it anywhere.

So, barring data I’ll continue to follow my standard practice of buying the least expensive product with the features I’m looking for. Others are free to follow the opposite approach.
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