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Bill Halmi View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 Aug 2020
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Posts: 3 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: torque
    Posted: 23 Aug 2020 at 10:50pm
I have a R-Pod 192 - currently towing with a 4Runner - rated to tow 5000 lbs, and with 278 torque,.
Going up steep grades on the highway to the mountains I max out at about 40MPH.
I'm considering getting the Ford Ranger - max tow 7500, torque 310.
Is that enough to not be so sluggish on a steep highway grade? 
Do I really need to step up and get something like an F150 with 400 lb-ft torque?
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poston View Drop Down
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Joined: 28 Mar 2018
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Posts: 199 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2020 at 1:03am
Originally posted by Bill Halmi

I have a R-Pod 192 - currently towing with a 4Runner - rated to tow 5000 lbs, and with 278 torque,.

My tow vehicle is an Xterra, 261hp/281lb-ft and I don't have any problem towing my 180, but I guess it's quite a bit lighter.

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Jim
Virginia City, Nevada
2016 R-pod 180
2015 Nissan Xterra Pro-4X
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riotkayak284 View Drop Down
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Posts: 162 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2020 at 5:51am
So looks like the dry weight is 3500lbs, so that means it is real world more more like 4200. So that is pushing the limits of a 5000 lb vehicle. Also, you said going to the mtns, looks like you are in AZ, so altitude will play a part in BHP.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2020 at 8:29am
Originally posted by Bill Halmi

I have a R-Pod 192 - currently towing with a 4Runner - rated to tow 5000 lbs, and with 278 torque,.
Going up steep grades on the highway to the mountains I max out at about 40MPH.
I'm considering getting the Ford Ranger - max tow 7500, torque 310.
Is that enough to not be so sluggish on a steep highway grade? 
Do I really need to step up and get something like an F150 with 400 lb-ft torque?

We need to separate weight carrying capacity from engine torque and power. Two completely different things. The WWII deuce and a half trucks that one us the war could carry and haul many tons with only 100 hp. They just went slow. 

So, the issue you are describing is lack of power climbing grades. That would be a horsepower issue (not torque). Your 4Runner max HP is 270 at 5600 rpm. Not sure what gear you're climbing in abnd what rpm you're seeing but see if you can select a gear that gives you around 5000-5600 rpm. Still not fast enough for you? You'll need a TV with a higher HP rating. 

Back on weight handling for safe towing. I agree that a 192 is pushing the max limits of a 4Runner. I suggest you weigh your trailer  and rig as set up for travel and be sure you are under the max trailer weight, max tongue weight, and max combined gross vehicle weight of the 4Runner. You can do the weighing at a public scale, if you search on the forum I wrote up the procedure I use. 

 
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CharlieM View Drop Down
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Posts: 1797 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2020 at 9:23am
Offgrid,
Glad to see you draw the distinction between HP and torque. I've been trying to explain that to torque lovers forever and have finally given up. Like your 2-1/2s a Mack garbage truck has lots of torque and can do 0-5 MPH in 2 seconds. Not much of a TV Smile. That said, another problem is how the auto manufactures rate their engines. The max HP speeds are climbing well above 5000RPM. Racing your engine at 5600RPM to achieve 40MPH is tough on the ears.
Charlie
Northern Colorado
OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD
PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD
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mjlrpod View Drop Down
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Posts: 1221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2020 at 9:44am
I have a question on this. I tow a 195, so about the same weight. I try to keep it about 3500, but under 4000 r.p.m. when climbing. I just think it sounds like it's working hard at 4000 or so. The tach starts to red line after 6000 r.p.m.. So is it ok to run as much as 4500 - 4800 r.p.m. even though it "sounds" rough?? I know it's kinda hard to really know, just wondering if ocassional higher r.p.m.'s is ok for climbing. 
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2020 at 9:55am
Originally posted by mjlrpod

I have a question on this. I tow a 195, so about the same weight. I try to keep it about 3500, but under 4000 r.p.m. when climbing. I just think it sounds like it's working hard at 4000 or so. The tach starts to red line after 6000 r.p.m.. So is it ok to run as much as 4500 - 4800 r.p.m. even though it "sounds" rough?? I know it's kinda hard to really know, just wondering if ocassional higher r.p.m.'s is ok for climbing. 

Sure, it should be fine to run at the higher rpm occasionally, just noisy. If the manufacturer didn't want you to ever run at that rpm they would have set the red line lower. 

Given the choice, I prefer to run at a higher rpm in a lower gear to develop the same hp and speed when climbing grades in hot weather. The cooling system works better at higher rpm. That is less important these days with electric radiator fans but it used to make a huge difference in engine temp with belt driven fans And boy did it make a big difference in old air cooled VW's. It would be the difference between having a burned exhaust valve or not by the time I got to the top of the I5 Grapevine in CA (ask me how I know). 
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Colt View Drop Down
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Posts: 383 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2020 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by mjlrpod

I have a question on this. I tow a 195, so about the same weight. I try to keep it about 3500, but under 4000 r.p.m. when climbing. I just think it sounds like it's working hard at 4000 or so. The tach starts to red line after 6000 r.p.m.. So is it ok to run as much as 4500 - 4800 r.p.m. even though it "sounds" rough?? I know it's kinda hard to really know, just wondering if occasional higher r.p.m.'s is ok for climbing. 


After the engine and trans are fully warmed up, the green zone is idle to redline.  Use it.  200 HP at 3500 RPM is 300 lb-ft.  200 HP at 6000 RPM is 175 lb-ft.  Which stresses your frame and trans most?  Both yield the same climbing speed.  Perhaps high RPM "sounds" hard on the engine, but it's not.  Oil and coolant flow are proportional to RPM.  My sports car cruises between 3500 and 4000 at legal speeds.  Both of my bikes redline over 10k.  Even the Duc wakes up over 6k.  So, I'm used to it. 
John
'16 R-Pod 180
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Colt View Drop Down
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Posts: 383 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2020 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by Bill Halmi

I have a R-Pod 192 - currently towing with a 4Runner - rated to tow 5000 lbs, and with 278 torque,.
Going up steep grades on the highway to the mountains I max out at about 40MPH.
................................


In my young and stupid days, I towed a ~2800 lb boat with a 2400 lb, 100 HP Datsun and it would do better.  Are you limiting RPM manually? 
John
'16 R-Pod 180
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StephenH View Drop Down
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Posts: 6418 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2020 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by Colt

After the engine and trans are fully warmed up, the green zone is idle to redline.  Use it.  200 HP at 3500 RPM is 300 lb-ft.  200 HP at 6000 RPM is 175 lb-ft.  Which stresses your frame and trans most?  Both yield the same climbing speed.  Perhaps high RPM "sounds" hard on the engine, but it's not.  Oil and coolant flow are proportional to RPM.  My sports car cruises between 3500 and 4000 at legal speeds.  Both of my bikes redline over 10k.  Even the Duc wakes up over 6k.  So, I'm used to it. 
The problem is that the higher RPM seems to use more gasoline than the lower RPM, all other things being equal. I'm not understanding why burning more gasoline than needed would be desirable.
StephenH
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