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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fridge not cooling
    Posted: 06 Jul 2020 at 1:09pm
jato, do you still think its much different on propane than 120V? Reason I ask is that its been up and down in temp while on propane as the outside temp has varied. Once you get a feel for how it is on propane over the next couple of days you might want to go back on electric and see if it is really any different. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 6:17am
Finally able to report back after a few days of testing.  Running electric I found fridge temp at 6 am 35-36 @ 6am going up to 48 - 50 during the hottest part of the day 2-4 pm where temp would rise to 48-49 degrees.  On the propane side fridge temp at 6 am would be 35-39 and at the hottest part of the day 2-4 pm temps would be 49-51.  This was done with a totally empty fridge with the exception of a pan of water placed in the freezer in the evening - each time under all circumstances ice would be made by morning.  Outside temperature during the hottest part of the day varied from 90 - 95 F.

My next test is to find out if these are normal operating temps with the existing outdoor temps and putting pre-cooled items (water and beverages) inside so that it isn't totally empty.  It will now be 50% filled with the above - will be interesting to see if this will allow the interior temps to be more stable during those hot parts of the day.

2 questions still emerge.  Are these temps that I give 'normal'?  Are these similar to what your temps are under somewhat similar conditions?

I have been told that the electric mixer valve may be faulty, that when I turn up the call for colder temps, (eg. - from 3 to 4 bars or 4 to 5 bars) that I should observe a larger flame which will produce more heat to cook the ammonia more vigorously giving me a colder temp.  When I went from 4 to 5 bars I did not observe a larger flame, it appeared to my eyes the same size.   Is that true, have you observed a larger flame when doing this?   Thanks for your patience, this has been quite a learning experience thus far.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 6:22am
The difference between gas and electric temps seems like its kinda in the noise. What were the outdoor temps at 6am and in the hottest part of the day? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 6:32am
Sorry offgrid.  6 am temps were 63 to 74 degrees.  2-4 pm temps were 90 to 95 degrees.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 6:48am
Ok so the ambient temps are varying by about 25 degrees morning to afternoon and the fridge temps are changing by about 15 degrees, And there is really only about a degree or so difference between gas and electric.

What I would tentatively conclude from that is that your gas and electric sides are both working about equally well, and obviously the fridge is cooling. Where I'm heading is I'm not sure there is anything wrong with it at this point. 95 is hot, it might not be able to maintain really cold temps is all. 

I think you're on the right track by adding more cold water/ice to the fridge. That will definitely help  stabilize things more. Water (or any kind of drink) has very high thermal mass (1 btu per lb per deg F to be precise, and 144 btu per lb to melt ice). If you put say cold canned drinks in there (compared say to a gallon jug) you will also have a lot of surface area to transfer heat between the water in the cans and the air in the fridge and that will help keep the afternoon temps in there lower. Try it and see, but as you say, put the liquids in cold and give it a couple of days to re-stabilize.   

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 8:40am
+1 to OG.  Freeze some water filled Costco nut containers and put a few in the refrigerator to simulate what it would be full of food and drink and you may find that your temperature range varies a lot less.  Air heats up and cools off pretty fast.  The thermal mass of liquid and food items helps keep the temperature down when it is hot outside and the refrigerator is not as efficient as it is in cooler weather.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 8:58am
Originally posted by jato

I have been told that the electric mixer valve may be faulty, that when I turn up the call for colder temps, (eg. - from 3 to 4 bars or 4 to 5 bars) that I should observe a larger flame which will produce more heat to cook the ammonia more vigorously giving me a colder temp.  When I went from 4 to 5 bars I did not observe a larger flame, it appeared to my eyes the same size.   Is that true, have you observed a larger flame when doing this?   


The thermostat works similar to your fridge at home, the cooling unit runs longer, or maybe continuously, to cool the interior when you set the unit to a 'higher' setting, which is a cooler temp.

You might try moving the thermistor on the cooling plate, or adding one of those little battery powered RV fridge fans inside the fridge, or adding an extra 12v fan on the exterior condenser fins, all of these can help, but otherwise these units are not the most powerful fridges ever made. On the other hand they sip propane...extending our ability to stay 'out there'...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 9:57am
+1 to Podwerkz. I added a cooler similar to this one to the inside of mine:


I also had a couple of muffin fans from computers in the house and I added them to the outside top cover, set to blow out to help extract hot air from the rear compartment. between the two, my refrigerator seems to keep temperatures better provided I periodically clean the propane system. Still, on hot days, especially with the sun beating down, the temperature in the refrigerator will rise into the 40's or 50's, especially if the AC isn't running to help keep the inside of the 'Pod cool. The heat coming from all sides is just too much for an absorption refrigeration system to handle. It would probably need twice the insulation to be able to keep cool in 90+ degree temperatures.

OTOH, I was able to purchase a Free Piston Sterling Cooler which operates on 12V, either from an automobile style 12V plug directly or through a transformer for AC power use. This thing is able to keep right around 4C (about 39F) even in high 90's temperatures. It was used by drug companies for transportation of medications (no biologics or organs), and was donated to ReStore where I purchased it. Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to find new ones at any sort of reasonable price. It is very efficient, and will not kill the battery overnight as it takes much less power to run. The newer Danfoss compressor refrigerators are also supposed to be efficient enough to use, but I have no experience with them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 7:47pm
When I looked at the free piston stirling coolers before it looked like their COP's were roughly in line with the Danfoss vapoor compression refrigeration units, maybe not quite as good. So, they're going to us a similar amount of energy to do the same work or a bit more. But the FPSC's are capable of reaching much colder temps, so they're really good for the "last mile" for vaccine cold chain distribution to remote clinics, etc. For use in mobile food refrigeration like in RV's the Danfoss units are maybe a bit more efficient and a lot cheaper.  Either one though consumes a lot of our very limited supply of electricity though so propane is generally a better solution for our purposes, even though the COP's of absorption fridges are really bad. Doesn't matter 'cause 5 gallons of propane contains the same energy as 100 golf cart batteries.LOL 

BTW, the Danfoss 12V compressors have been around for about 40 years, I installed many for solar powered vaccine cold chain applications in the mid 80's. Proven technology, nothing new about them. Efficiency is about the same as it was too. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2020 at 8:45pm
Correct me if I am wrong, but even the Danfoss and other '12V' compressors are not REALLY 12V DC...I am under the impression they have an internal control board (and inverter or switching/buck-boost circuit) feeding the brush-less compressor windings (and possibly a field coil) a 3 phase AC voltage...although I have no idea what that voltage would be. 

Yeah, there are 12V positive and negative wires or terminals, but the windings of the compressor are something else. Otherwise, with typical 12V DC motors, we would need brushes and commutators, and these compressors do not normally have those.

Although, I have not torn into one to verify that.

At any rate, I did the typical solar powered fridge experiment most of last year...I found that to have more compromises than a propane powered fridge. Just sayin.
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