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Sage View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Inverter Installation Help
    Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 8:39pm
Hello! I have a 2019 Forest River R-pod 180 and have been working all year to get to a completely off grid to basically live in for the summers. I have two 6v (225ah) batteries wired in series. (https://www.interstatebatteries.com/products/gc2-ecl-utl?productLine=golf-car&subcategoryKey=&ignorecategoryid=true) I also have two 100 watt Renogy solar panels all hooked up and charging my batteries (I can include pics this setup if anyone is interested (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BCRG22A/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_b.a6Eb8E21XEF) My next step is installing the inverter, which is where I don't feel as confident in my DIY journey. I just purchased a Renogy 700W 12V Inverter (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JMW8MMR/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_r7a6EbQ1CEBVY) and want to install it for use of the 110v outlets (fan, tv, phone/computer, coffee maker occasionally, nothing big like microwave, fridge or a/c).

Here are my questions:
1. What is the easiest install method to run it safely? From what I've read the easiest thing to do is just hook up the inverter to the battery bank and run an extension cord to the inside of the camper. Maybe install an outlet inside. If I do this, what type of extension cord would I need? Any 12v 14awg cord? What type of outlet would I need? 125v gfci? I'm not an electrician so I want to make sure I'm using all the correct items. Also when i hook up the inverter to the battery do i need a second grounding wire, a fuse protector, or circuit breaker?

2. Is wiring the inverter directly to my converter inside the rig a safe and somewhat straight forward process to hook up to AC directly? It would be great to just use the existing outlets inside. I know i would have to turn off the converter if i use the inverter so my batteries don't try charging themselves. Is there a diagram somewhere showing exactly how to do this? What additional wiring would I need to go to the AC fuse? WHERE IS THE CORRECT PLACEMENT FOR THE WIRES? Do I need another precautionary item like a breaker or fuse protector? I'm just scared I'm going to fry my system or the inverter. I can return my 700w inverter if there is a better product for the job. Just hitting a dead end on finding detailed instructions on how to do this but it would be ideal to use what I've already got.

Here are some photos of the wiring and batteries if this helps anyone help me :) Thank you so much in advance for any advice or help!

Front of breaker/converter box under dinette seat:
Sage
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 9:41pm
Okay. First thing, you need to adjust your expectations. You have nowhere enough battery or solar power to run the AC. I have a Generac iX2000 (2000 running watts, 2200 surge watts) to run the AC and I basically can only run the AC and nothing else significant at the same time (lights are insignificant).If you want to run the AC, you will need a large array of solar panels and a large bank of LiFePO4 batteries. See the Gone with the Wynns blog to learn why.

You would be better served to get a generator to run the AC. Even the microwave would be a challenge. You would need an inverter of over 1,000 watts to do so, not a 700 watt model. That would also take some serious power to run for any length of time. Look at the wattage ratings of everything you wish to run. If you plan on running more than one item simultaneously, add the wattage ratings together. Some items have a startup surge that is much higher than the rated wattage. The AC and Microwave are two such items. You would need to allow for that surge current.

All that being said, if you are setting your RPod up in a fixed location where you can add a large array beside it and have a small building to house the battery bank needed, you could possibly go completely solar. Don't expect it to be easy or cheap.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 10:22pm
StephenH, as I read this Sage is not trying to run the air conditioner (a/c) or microwave.

That being said, Sage, even without those loads you will draw down those batteries fast if you try to run things like coffee makers. Why not heat you coffee water on the stove and use a French press or single cup filter? None of the other loads you mentioned require AC power. I installed a couple of 12v charge ports and use a dual voltage tv, 12v fans, and usb for the phones. Most laptops have 12v options as well. Or just use a little 100-200 watt inverter for that.

If you do proceed with the larger inverter, I would not try to use the existing outlets with the inverter unless you never want to use them from a grid connection ever again. To have both would require a transfer switch and also require you to separate the a/c and microwave circuits (and don’t forget the water heater element) which cannot be run from the inverter. . Way too complicated. I would just either install a new outlet from the inverter or rewire an existing outlet so it’s connected to the inverter and disconnected from grid power. Re gfci’s there were a lot of changes in that area in the latest electric code cycle and I’m not up to speed on them, but barring that you shouldn’t need them if the receptacle in not in the kitchen or bath areas. You should place the inverter in a well ventilated but weather protected area close to the batteries, and yes you should install a circuit breaker or fuse at the battery + terminal. A 700 watt inverter will demand around 75 amps peak and cbs/fuses should be oversized by 25% to prevent nuisance trips so you will need a 100A fuse and 2 gauge wire.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 2:36am
Originally posted by Sage

 I just purchased a Renogy 700W 12V Inverter (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JMW8MMR/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_r7a6EbQ1CEBVY) and want to install it for use of the 110v outlets (fan, tv, phone/computer, coffee maker occasionally, nothing big like microwave, fridge or a/c).


Sage, you 'could' run the fan, tv, phone charger or computer with this inverter, but using it to power a normal home kitchen style coffee maker will almost surely drain the batteries so rapidly that your coffee will not brew completely, the inverter will shut off, and your 2 solar panels will not be able to replenish the batteries in the same day this all happens. 

A coffee maker IS a heavy draw just like the other items you listed...most are around 1000 watts to as high as about 1500 watts in brew cycle.

I would recommend that you buy the 12 volt versions of a fan, tv, laptop and phone charger, and learn to brew your coffee on the propane stove using an old school coffee pot. I just heat water and do a pour-over with instant coffee but I know not everyone can tolerate that!

Save the energy in those two batteries for normal loads like interior lights, roof fan, radio, fridge controller board, and fresh water pump.





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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 6:45am
 2. Is wiring the inverter directly to my converter inside the rig a safe and somewhat straight forward process to hook up to AC directly? It would be great to just use the existing outlets inside. I know i would have to turn off the converter if i use the inverter so my batteries don't try charging themselves. Is there a diagram somewhere showing exactly how to do this? What additional wiring would I need to go to the AC fuse? WHERE IS THE CORRECT PLACEMENT FOR THE WIRES? Do I need another precautionary item like a breaker or fuse protector? I'm just scared I'm going to fry my system or the inverter. I can return my 700w inverter if there is a better product for the job. Just hitting a dead end on finding detailed instructions on how to do this but it would be ideal to use what I've already got.‘

Here is a link to a site that may answer some of your questions. There are diagrams for common circuits and calculators for wire size etc. when I did a DIY camper van it was A great resource.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 9:23am
Okay. I misread about the AC and microwave. AC was used in two senses and I conflated the two. Still, I agree that trying to wire an inverter to existing outlets is not a good idea. Use of propane for heating water for pour-over or French Press coffee is a better idea. Also, a stovetop Moka Pot such as the Bialetti Venus which can be used on the propane stove or an induction surface is a good alternative. If you just have to use pods, the Presto MyJo is something you could use with stovetop heated water.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 10:04am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 10:57am
Thanks for all the advice! So scratch hooking up an inverter to the breaker box. I figured this would be an expensive and complicated option. Follow up question: Is there a way to use the existing radio wires or one of the ceiling lights to wire up a 12v outlet and small inverter inside? If I'm just running my tv at night (uses 25-28 watts) occasionally and charging my macbook pro for work, i think i would only need a 100 or 200 watt inverter inside. If i do get a small inverter, do i really need a pure sine wave one? And if i hook it directly to the battery do i still need a circurt breaker switch? I'm just trying to figure out a way to have everything inside the rig if possible to protect everything. I like the idea of just installing cig plugs and plugging a little inverter into them when needed.

Side note: would it save more battery life if i used a lamp with a led power saving bulb rather than the overhead lights? Want to conserve as much battery life as possible if anyone has other suggestions.

As far as coffee goes, I've always used a french press in the past but i drink A LOT of coffee and feel like I'm just always cleaning my press and dumping coffee grounds in my garbage. I thought a small single serve machine would allow me to drink all the cups of coffee without all the mess. Meh, I'll just stick with the french press :) i like the teabags of coffee idea off grid, thanks!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 11:21am
I did exactly that, picked off 12V  at the stereo to run the dc fans, dual voltage TV, and usb phone charge ports. You will use more power via an inverter so keep it as small as possible, but it should be OK. Or just get a dual voltage TV and sell the one that came with the trailer on Craigslist. 

The lights in the trailer are already LED so you won't save significant energy by using a separate LRD lamp. 

You should always use a fuse or circuit breaker at the battery connection for safety. Batteries produce hundreds of amps into a short, more than enough to burn up your trailer. The fuse or cb can be much smaller for a 200 watt inverter than a 700 watt one of course, and if you connect to the stereo supply there is already a fuse for that line in the trailer panel. 

My little inverter isn't sine wave but the you can get them now for well under $50 so why not? Sine wave ones are much less electrically noisy and better for your electronics. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 11:44am
Okay, As for installing a 12V outlet, this is easier by far. I've used the power feed wire to the Jensen stereo unit on ours for a 12V outlet and a double USB outlet. The 12V outlet powers a small inverter I use for the television, and can use to charge laptops if needed. At night, this outlet powers my CPAP machine which is the primary reason I installed the outlet. The USB outlet is used for our phones. Since there is already a fuse on the circuit, I did not add a separate one.

I installed a second 12V outlet near the furnace and tapped into that circuit. This one has two 12V outlets and a double USB plug in one face plate. After blowing a couple of fuses, I looked at the wiring and realized that it is the same size as other wiring with 15A fuses in the panel. I did change out the fuse for a larger size and then put a smaller 10A fuse inline with the 12V outlet setup there. I have not had any problems with it set up this way. Mostly, what gets plugged into this one is a 12V fan (O2 Cool). I originally had my CPAP machine plugged in here as well, but when we turned around to have our heads facing the door side in our 179, it was no longer a good location.

As for using a lamp with an LED bulb, probably not much. Are you talking about a battery powered LED lamp or a 110V lamp powered through an inverter? The advantage of the overhead lights is that you can turn on as many or as few as you need at the time and then turn them off. They are very efficient already. A 110v LED lamp would have the power losses associated with the inverter and so would not save power but would be more likely to use more. A 12V LED reading type lamp plugged into a 12V outlet OTOH, might not be bad as you would be able to concentrate the light where you need it.

As for pure sine wave, it depends. You would be plugging in the power block for your laptop, not the macbook pro directly so any power would be filtered through the transformer in the charger. I bought an inexpensive inverter and have used it to charge our laptops and television, and it seemed to work just fine even though it does not state that it is "pure sine." That inverter is the 150W Bestek MRI1511FU. I also have a 300W Power Drive purchased at a truck stop. In our case, neither one gets used very much. We found the phones get used much more and they get charged via the USB outlet when we park them for the night in the holders I mounted on the wall at the head of the bed.
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