Gas Mileage |
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Butterfly_Lee
Senior Member Joined: 19 Nov 2009 Location: Corpus Christi Online Status: Offline Posts: 131 |
Topic: Gas Mileage Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 11:52am |
I went to your second link and found http://www.airtab.com/en/. These look really interesting, talks a little about drag from the A/C. Couldn't find a price per foot, but these could straight (maybe) that drag in the back (these might be our after market airdam). Something "I" could do myself.
Lee
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Still a work in progress, lots of pictures.
http://podterfly.blogspot.com/ |
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brownd
Newbie Joined: 25 Jul 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 36 |
Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 1:23pm |
Techntrek,
Thanks for forwarding our information to Forest River. Here's hoping they will respond and help us out.
Dave
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Dave
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Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 6:51am |
I have a little different take on the Pod/miles per gallon/airflow situation. I let Dixie do the graphics, as I am not very artistic. It seems to me that a traditional “spoiler” might change the airflow characteristics some, but not substantially reduce the low pressure/vacuum at the rear of the Pod. It would seem that the better way would be to “help” air into the low pressure area with an airfoil. This could be something like the rear wings you may have seen on the “Fast & Furious” small import car speed demons - only mounted in the opposite way. Rather than directing air up and creating down force, flip it over and have it direct air down the back of the Pod. Placement would be important as would be a robust mounting location, as it would experience a significant “load”. Now, if I could just get FR to donate a Pod shell w/wheels as a “test mule” to prove my theory |
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TIDALWAVE
Senior Member Joined: 21 Nov 2009 Location: MINNESOTA Online Status: Offline Posts: 315 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 8:43am |
As the above thread mentioned it might be better to have an airfoil than a spoiler on the back of the Pod. I and a couple of other members used the 'airflow' software available on line to run flow simulations. The one noticeable feature of the flow regardless of the shape of the tow vehicle or if there was an A/C on the roof, was the large vacuum 'bubble' behind the pod. Some tow vehicles along with or without a air deflector on the tow vehicle would cause a momentary 'popping' of the vacuum bubble. On other configurations, there was a continuous lower pressure behind the Pod.
As far as I can tell no-one ran an airfoil simulation to see its effects. On some vehicles there was smooth flow from the top of the TV up and over the Pod. So I am now wondering if the low mpg is being caused, not by the frontal area pushing against on coming air flow, but rather the drop in pressure behind the Pod pulling backward it. I will try to run some simulations and post them here if no one else does. |
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TIDALWAVE
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HerbL
Newbie Joined: 16 Jan 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 21 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 9:29am |
Great discussion. I have nothing to add, but am following what others are discussing with great interest. We tow with a Chevy Colorado (171) and if we keep our speed between 50-60 we get 13-13.5 MPG towing in third gear (4 speed auto). I am seeing this is actually fairly good for towing the Pod, but really sucks compared to what people claim they get with Casita's which are about the same size. We have towed the Pod about 6,000 miles since we got it March, so even a slight increase in MPG will save us a significant amount in gas expenses and put less stress on the TV.
We are going to the Ohio roundup from Connecticut, hope to see some of you there. |
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David and Danette
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 24 Nov 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1214 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 12:29pm |
If someone was good at making a small scale model of the R-Pod. And if a wind tunnel could be made to place model of the R-Pod in it. The force pulled on the tongue could be measured using a string tied to the tongue then some sort of device to measure pull. Then different techniques could be tried to change wind flow and force of drag. Perhaps a scale model of ones TV could me tried to see how the combination of the two would cause drag. This is what I thought might work if it could be done. A fun project for someone with the talent and a lot of time on there hands. Does this sound like it might work or could be done? David
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2018 Vista Cruiser 19BFD (2018-
2012 Vibe 6503 (2014-2019) 2009 r-pod 171 (2009-2014) Middle Tn 2014 Ram 1500 Quad cab |
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Posted: 18 Sep 2010 at 12:47pm |
I posted something like this months ago (maybe on the other place) and no one commented on it. Some were wondering (also) why the spare tire cover was being sucked off the back, if not tied down.
I'm convinced that the biggest problem is not the frontal area, but the vacuum at the rear of the Pod. I'll add a personal observation (when towing the Pod) when vehicle would get behind me, I could tell without even seeing them because my speed would drop about 5mph. Contrary to NASCAR type drafting, that helps BOTH cars go faster, the following vehicle did nothing to allieviate the vacuum, for me (I don't know how it affected them).
When I "drafted" a guy towing a large boat it made a slight difference, but not a lot. But, when going thru Illinois (flat terrain) and with a constant good tail wind (est. 25-30mph) that did make a huge difference. From an aerodynamic point of view, though I was driving about 65mph (yes I was speeding - the limit was 55mph) the "air" acted as though I was only doing about 35-40mph. I honestly got 17mpg on that tankfull! Again, once that "critical" speed is reached, the air begins to overshoot the Pod, creating the vacuum.
I thought about side mounted air scoops, but was afraid that might affect stability under some circumstances. A air scoop underneath I think would be less effective and cause clearance issues.
I'm curious about your simulations - just for the heck of it.
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TIDALWAVE
Senior Member Joined: 21 Nov 2009 Location: MINNESOTA Online Status: Offline Posts: 315 |
Posted: 19 Sep 2010 at 12:46pm |
I re-ran the airflow simulations with a couple of additions.
A few caveats before you try to look at my animations. The tow vehicle is a 2010 Chevy pickup with a topper on the bed. I didn't try to run any open bed sims this time. I looked at a couple of photos from owners of the R-Pod 170 series with spoilers. The spoiler attachment point and extension out from the rear of the Pod is very approximate. Also the airfoil position is just a guess. It takes a while to download an image to England and then have the animation sent back, so I just chose a simple flat foil, positioned approximately parallel to the rear of the Pod. The 'angle of attack', size of the foil and position would probably make a big difference in its affect of the airflow. I will attempt to run a few more foil animations later this month. Finally, as was mentioned on the Fall, 2009 animations, the real world air flows are probably somewhat different from the ones posted here. I didn't use anything but the default parameters available from the website. These animations were generated just to get a general idea on how the airflow moves over the Pod and how obstructions such as the A/C, spoilers, and foils 'might' change the flow. The one thing that seems to be consistent from the present simulations and the many I did last Fall...is that the roof-mounted Air Conditioner has the biggest effect on air flow. It tends to create the largest and most intense vacuum behind the Pod of any of the runs. Foils and spoilers on the rear without an A/C on top barely changed the airflow. The A/C seems to overpower any other feature on the roof of the Pod. (This is the first time I have tried to post 'avi animations' from Youtube on this forum...so if they don't work...I will try to post again later) 1) COMBO.AVI: my truck and Pod with no roof obstructions (A/C, spoiler, or foil) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9m5H1UEImc 2) COMOACZ.AVI: Pod with A/C on top http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgYO4t5MwBc 3) CSPLAC.AVI: A/C on roof with small spoiler on rear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Z8nl-CL_Q 4) CFOIL2Z.AVI: small foil at rear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT5ruDfD0OQ 5) CSPOILERZ.AVI: small spoiler attached to rear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yi0ZtMCMv0 If one of you has a spoiler attached to your new Pod, if you let me know the location and size of the spoiler, I would be willing to run a simulation with a better representation. |
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TIDALWAVE
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Posted: 19 Sep 2010 at 3:50pm |
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KJR
Newbie Joined: 19 Sep 2010 Location: Frisco, TX Online Status: Offline Posts: 11 |
Posted: 19 Sep 2010 at 11:26pm |
This thread is a major let down for me. I've been reading up on lightweight RVs for a couple of months and the Rpod seemed tho be a good solution. I don't have a tow vehicle and did savor the thought of getting a V8 powered tow vehicle. I wanted something to that a Ford Explorer or Chevy Trailblazer could pull including. I figured even these vehicles could even put an Rpod around the Rockies.
After reading the posts in this thread it appears Rpods don't tow any better than a traditional travel trailer of the same size and you still need a V8 powered vehicle to get the best tow experience. I I was able to see an Rpod at the Dallas RV show held this weekend. I also also looked at the Aliner hard sided pop ups also but they got crossed off my list. Aliners are too expensive and their quality is pretty bad. The only good thing about them is they fold up and tow easy. I saw the Rpod rip off also this weekend, the Heartland MPG. I bet it has the same aerodynamic issue. What would the simulation show if the rear of the Rpod was squared off the back. Does Forest River even use a wind tunnel to test their designs? Forest River has the Flagstaff Micro Lite XLT. Rounded at the front and squared off at the back. Its heavier than an Rpod but still 4000 lbs GVWR. I guess I just hang around and see if Forest River addresses these issues. Kelvin |
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