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Topic ClosedCaulking the 'spoiler'

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offgrid View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Caulking the 'spoiler'
    Posted: 20 Jul 2020 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by lostagain

I don't think I've ever heard of an rPod or any other travel trailer break in the middle from using the general rule of thumb of 60/40.  The point is be aware of where your weight it and try to keep the trailer a bit heavier forward of the axle and always follow the 10-15% tongue weight practice.  I bought a Sherline over a year ago and have been successful in not only weighting the tongue, but the axles too, at least as compared to the results that I got at a public scale weighing the exact same trailer with the same contents.  I don't check the tongue weight each time we go, instead using the "Zen" of trailer loading by paying attention to what I put in the trailer and where it is, always mindful of trying to keep the greater portion of the weight forward of the axle and at least 10% on the tongue.  [I always put the gold bars in the forward storage area rather than aft of the axle.]

Since I plod along at 55mph I have had plenty of semi's pass me going really fast.  I can't say they were going 80 because I don't carry some kind of speed radar, but I can say it was way faster than my travel.  And I've had this happen in windy conditions too.  Certainly, I could feel the wind hitting my TV/TT, but it was nothing of consequence and certainly not enough to cause a control problem.

If you are driving on the edge of the limits of your TV, carrying too much weight that is poorly balanced, and driving too fast for the circumstances, then you are at serious risk of a control problem.  If you pay attention to weight and balance, don't overload your rig, use a WHD where appropriate, and keep your speed to 60 or less, the probability of a load/balance accident is relatively low.  As has often been suggested in the pages of this forum, nothing is without risk.  It's a question of risk management.

So back to the spoiler sealing issue, I'm not really sure if leaving it on is worth the bother.  You need the clearance lights it holds, but there are other ways to skin that cat.  I doubt the spoiler really improves the aerodynamics of the trailer.

We have had at least one rpod owned by someone on this forum where the frame failed at the axle location. So they can break, no question. I've done the stress calcs and I'll be generous and say that the frames are not over engineered.  If you were to assume that anywhere aft of the axle was equally good to place load, with no regard for the distance to the axle, then that would certainly exacerbate the likelihood of that kind of failure happening. That's pretty obvious, and most owners know not to hang heavy stuff way out there. 

LA, you have done the smart and prudent thing and measured your tongue and trailer weight accurately, one time. Once you have done that there isn't any need to repeat the process unless you make significant changes to your trailer or its loading. Barring coming across those gold bars camping in the CA gold country sometime your loading for the next trip isn't going to be much different from the last one. I don't check mine each time either. 

Its the same with flying, the FAA says you are supposed to do a weight and balance calc every time you fly but if you are loaded with the same ppl and stuff in the same seats and places there is no reason other than regulations. So pilots don't do it. They at most just keep the same w&b sheet in the plane so they can show it to the FAA inspector if they get ramp checked. 

I know for sure that some of the semis roll along I81 here at well over 80 because they handily pass me in my Prius while I'm cruising in the high 70's. Not all, but many do. I81 has more tractor trailer rigs than street cars on it most of the time. If your fore/aft trailer balance is good you will get a very noticeable buffet but not a wag. 

My guess is that the spoiler does a little to reduce drag but it would need to be larger to be really effective. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it is larger on the newer rpods. 




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2020 at 5:26pm
I always load my gold bars just forward of the axle.  I leave the trailer hitch platform on the back of the trailer for the silver.  Remember we are gifted with both here in the Comstock Lode.  Evil Smile

Good point on the broken frame, OG.  I forgot about that one.  Was there ever a cause determined?  Was it from overloading fore and aft of the axle, or from something as mundane as mid-west salt corrosion?  How do those bridges stay standing back there?  Some look like the rust is the only thing holding them up.

If it were up to me, I'd pay truck drivers by the hour not the mile, so they wouldn't be pushed to drive way, way too fast.  But that's another issue for another forum and has nothing to do with spoilers.

Doesn't the spoiler wind deflection push the back of the trailer down, i.e. more "weight" aft of the axle?  True their so small it's probably inconsequential, but what's the point of putting them on in the first place.  Kind of like the fins on a 1957 DeSoto.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2020 at 6:11pm
it was Olddawgsrule's trailer that had the frame failure, I don't think it was from rust, but maybe we could get an update. 

When I did the stress calc on it I assumed uniform loading in the trailer and 3500 lbs axle load and got a safety factor of less than 2. That's really not enough considering bump loading. Really it could happen to any of us if we were heavily loaded and hit a good big pothole, especially if that load was hanging off the rear bumper and not uniformly distributed. 

I think some of the bridges just haven't figured out yet that they should fall down. Some have. The Silver Bridge across the Ohio at Pt. Pleasant WV being perhaps the most famous. Some folks blame the Mothman for that one but it was just plain old corrosion stress fracturing. There is a Richard Gere movie about it if you want to hear the  Mothman theory. 

Wings are different from spoilers. High performance cars use inverted wings to create downforce to hold the cars down at high speed for better handling. Those produce lots of drag so are doing the opposite of what spoilers are intended to do. The spoilers on the backs of regular passenger vehicles and trailers don't create much downforce, their purpose is to subtly redirect airflow so it doesn't get trapped in a pocket behind the vehicle. 

As far as truck drivers travelling too fast, that can spoil you whole day....There are a certain number of drivers that are gonna speed. When you have a rural freeway posted at 70 for both trucks and passenger cars you're gonna see some folks driving in the mid 80's. I see significantly less truck drivers doing that than car drivers, so that speaks well for them overall. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2020 at 8:23pm
Speaking of spoilers, has anyone tried adding AirTabs to the RPod? Do they help or is it hype?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2020 at 5:21am
If they work its because the air stays away from them because they're soooo ugly....I can't imagine putting those things on my trailer. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2020 at 8:29am
I did some searching and came up with two things:
1. They can help with increasing attached air flow.
2. They do increase drag.

The caveat is that the wind tunnel testing I saw was on a race car being modified for aerodynamics. They were testing a lot of other modifications as well. OTOH, there are other opinions that while they may increase drag a bit, they do significantly decrease wind buffeting and increase stability, especially when being passed by the big rigs. That in itself might be very helpful. As for the appearance, they can be painted. Trying to color-match the RPod though might be difficult.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2020 at 9:20am
AirtabĀ® is a brand name for a vortex generator.  There are lots of different ones on the market, most of which seem to be grossly overpriced for little sticky back pieces of injection molded plastic.  Here is an interesting discussion regarding vortex generators used on an SUV:  http://dspace.calstate.edu/bitstream/handle/10211.9/1780/Sevilla%20-%20Thesis%20Final.pdf?sequence=5

It looks like vortex generators can improve the wind turbulence problem.  The question remains which shapes work best for a travel trailer and are they really worth the cost, especially given the limited use of trailers.  For a semi-tractor/trailer on the road nearly every day at highway speeds, the savings in fuel may make it cost effective in a few months.  For a travel trailer, they may get brittle and break or fall off long before you've gotten your money's worth.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2020 at 9:55am
One has to assume that Forest River did the design calculations to at least meet min. safety standards and that the TT is balanced correctly. The  R-POD 172 only weighs 2113 pounds and is presumably proportioned at 60-40 at the axle rear and with 10 to 15 percent being tongue weight.  My add on rear bumper minus the weight of the stock bumper probably doesn't exceed the weight of a fifty pound additional house battery mounted near the tongue of the TT.  If it does exceed it, the difference is insignificant.

The GVWR is 3179 pounds.  I highly doubt that I add more than a 100 pounds to the POD in personal items while traveling.

As was said by others, the real safety variables for us are speed and  the occasional very poor (dangerous) highway infrastructure.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2020 at 10:32am
There is no formal specification for safety factor in vehicle frame design. In fact the numbers used by vehicle manufacturers are considered trade secrets. Guidance in the trucking industry is 2.5 to 3x for bump loads. Cars and pickups are higher. Rpods are significantly less than that. There have been numerous instances of axle failures in rPods. So I would assume nothing about the way FR did their design calcs. 

That being said, the 172 is probably in the best shape as far as the frame and axle goes as it is a light rPod. The failures have all been in the heavier trailers in the series I believe. OTOH, 172's are one of the ones that has exhibited sway. It will most likely occur when the black and gray tanks are full as they are both behind the axle. Loading additional weight on the rear won't help that. Like I said, you can do what you want but my recommendation remains to verify your actual tongue weight percent under worst case aft loading conditions and be sure you're over the magic 10% number. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2020 at 10:55am
Actually, on the 2011 R-POD both the black and gray tanks are located forward of the axle.  The fresh water tank is located aft of the axle.   However, I understand the concept you are putting forth.

You obviously know your stuff.  Thanks for the education. 
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