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Topic ClosedPower protection with generator

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Shane View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Power protection with generator
    Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 5:17pm
Do you still need to use a power protection device if you are using a generator for you 30amp power? I think common sense would be yes but just curious if its necessary.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 5:48pm
That would depend on if the generator can produce more than 30 amps. But the best answer is, you can never be too safe. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2019 at 7:38pm
If you want to use power protection, the smart ones might not let power flow since the generators have a floating ground. In that case, you would need to purchase or make (really simple) a bonding plug to tie together the neutral and ground terminals. Then the circuit analyzer will be happy and let the current flow.

Bonding plug:  Take one 15A male plug sold at the hardware store for repairing extension cords. One meant for outdoor use is probably best for this. Open the plug and locate the neutral and ground terminals (usually, hot is brass color, neutral is silver color, and ground is green). Take a short piece of 10 or 12 gauge wire and connect the neutral (silver) terminal and the ground (green) terminal. Do NOT connect anything to the hot (brass color) terminal! Close the plug and (if desired) squirt some silicone sealant in the hole through which a cord would normally run to make it water resistant.

Use of bonding plug: Plug the bonding plug into one of the 15A outlets on your generator. Plug your circuit analyzer or extension cord into one of the other outlets (15A or 30A as appropriate). Start your generator and run as normal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2019 at 12:42am
Need to? No....but of course you can add protection for your own peace of mind. 

But most protection devices are designed to prevent electrical spikes and surges that can happen to the grid/shorepower system. Those spikes and surges normally occur upstream somewhere due to an electrical storm, lightning, etc, or possibly, physical damage to the lines or poles somewhere on that part of the grid.

Most decent quality generators have little chance of producing a damaging spike or surge....but of course, anything can happen.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2019 at 10:11am
Originally posted by StephenH

If you want to use power protection, the smart ones might not let power flow since the generators have a floating ground. In that case, you would need to purchase or make (really simple) a bonding plug to tie together the neutral and ground terminals. Then the circuit analyzer will be happy and let the current flow


Or, most generators have a ground terminal on them. Just drive a metal rod into the ground and have a wire with a clamp on one end and a spade or loop terminal on the other end. Then just connect the terminal to the generator and the clamp to the rod.

However, There is very little chance of a power spike with an inverter generator. We don't use our power protection when running on generator.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2019 at 12:05pm
An effective ground rod must be driven in quite deep. If one is in a rocky area, that might not be so easy. A shallow ground rod won't provide much protection. When I was stationed at Fort Hood, we would drive in copper ground rods that were about 8' long. To get them back out, we hooked a chain from one of the trucks to pull it out. This might not be acceptable in some places. One does not want to just drive a ground rod in without knowing whether there is something buried there that might be damaged (water, power, sewer, etc. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2019 at 2:18pm
+1 A ground rod needs (usually) to be about 6-8 feet into the ground. Once you do that, you may not be able to get it out again. That, and you have no idea what may be underground.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2019 at 8:41pm
An alternative is to dig a trench and bury the 8' ground rod horizontally. I think most campgrounds would frown on this type of digging. That is why a bonding plug is a good alternative that works.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2019 at 2:46am
We need to differentiate the terms "bonding" and "grounding". Bonding connects the metal parts of an electrical system together as well as to the neutral (white) conductor. Grounding provides a connection between earth ground and this bonded system.

RV's have no grounding system themselves, when grid connected the ground connection is provided by the connection to the RV park or home electrical system. So when you are disconnected from that and are running on a generator there is no earth ground connection. That's OK as long as everything is bonded to the trailer chassis.

The trailer electrical system (both the neutral and any metallic components) are bonded to each other and to the chassis at the power panel. So if you connect your three wire (two plus ground) power cord between the generator and the receptacle on the trailer (no power protection device) everything except the chassis of the generator itself has been bonded. 

If the generator is mounted on the RV then by code its chassis is supposed to be bonded to the RV chassis, which can be done using the generator ground connection point. That point is not connected to neutral at the generator receptacles, just to the generator chassis and outlet grounds. At least that's how my Honda is wired. Check your generator manual to be certain.

If the generator is not mounted on the RV and you have a circuit analyser that is looking for a connection between the ground and neutral conductors feeding the trailer receptacle, as StephenH says it will refuse to connect unless those two conductors are already bonded before entering the trailer. StephenH's bonding plug solution will work for that. A ground rod connected to the generator ground point would not, because the neutral would still not be bonded at the generator.

The only caveat I have is that the bonding plug needs to be able to carry the full current output of the generator. So if that is say 30A i wouldn't use a 15A plug and 12 gauge wire for that purpose. 

For myself, I don't use a circuit analyser when running on my Honda. Its not like there are miles of power lines waiting to be struck by lightning feeding into the trailer. The likelihood of getting a lightning induced spike on the 25 foot cable to the generator is negligible, and if it did happen the strike would be so close that I would be more worried about changing my shorts than fixing my trailer wiring. LOL




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2019 at 8:13am
Thanks for the thorough explanation and the humor at the end. I was sitting in the apartment I was renting in Yongsan, Korea working at my computer. I heard a loud SNAP and my computer shut down. It was during a thunderstorm, and I think the lightning struck a telephone pole near me. The computer was mostly okay, but my surge protector was fried as was the modem.

I use the bonding plug and since my generator only has the two 15A outlets, and since the distance to be bridged is so short (more like 2" or less of wire which includes the wrapping of the ends around the terminals, 12 gauge is probably okay, 10 gauge better. Agreed though that if I had a 3500 Watt generator, I would want to use a heavier wire for bonding. However, that would present the problem of how to do so because most generators I have seen may have two 15A outlets but only one 30A outlet available.
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