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jato View Drop Down
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Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Location: Kewadin, MI
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Posts: 3216 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Brakes
    Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 4:31pm
Having problems with the brakes on our 177.  IF I manually put the brakes on (11 F-150) the brakes stop immediately on the 177 (blocked up so tires don't hit the ground) matters not if the setting is 3, 4.5 or 7.  Now if I apply the brake pedal, nothing happens on the trailer.  Took readings on the Bargman, 12.9 volts when I apply brakes both manually and with the pedal.  Went through the wiring as much as I can see from the brake to where it is covered, all looks fine, no breakage, no pinching, cable ties are all in order. A neighbor thinks my factory installed controller is possibly toast.  Any ideas?  Thank you. 
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 10:26pm
I don't know exactly how the F150 brake controller is set up so if someone else does that you be better than any ideas I could give you. 

If you're getting 12.9 volts either from the pedal or the manual lever on the brake pin then the 177 brakes should react the same, they only see the 12.9V, they don't know what pedal or lever you activated to get that.  So, first (sorry for being obvious) be 100% sure you're measuring the brake pin and not the battery pin. 

If you are then possibly the controller isn't actually putting out 12.9 volts when loaded down by the 177 brakes while you are on the pedal, but is when you're on manual.  You could connect a jumper wire between the trailer and tow vehicle brake pins and another between the negative pins  so you can get in there with your meter and see what the voltage is from the brake controller when the brakes are actually loading it up. 
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2627 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 9:51am
I presume you have the factory TBC? and.. are you talking about squeezing the TBC control versus actually using the brake pedal? Is the ignition on with the engine running? 

Our 2015 displays on the dashboard the amount of braking that is being sent to the trailer on the dashboard display. Does your 2011 do the same?
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
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jato View Drop Down
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Posts: 3216 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 3:40pm
Yes, we have the factory TBC and yes I was squeezing the control with the vehicle running.  I have not seen a display on my dashboard showing the amount of braking while doing so.  Will further investigate this.  Ran a test from the 177's bargman to the brakes, wires show continuity.  That is all for now.  Also have set an appointment for the truck for next Tuesday, in case this isn't solved by then.  Thanks Glueguy and offgrid
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 5:23pm
Most brake controllers have an accelerometer in them that senses the tow vehicle decelerating and applies the trailer brakes proportionally to how fast the deceleration is. The manual control overrides this. Could it be that the brake controller is actually working OK but since the tow vehicle isn't moving its not sensing any deceleration so not activating the trailer brakes? Just a thought....
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1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
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mcarter View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Location: Greenbrier, TN
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Posts: 3419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 6:45pm
I have to move Pod tomorrow and do have a display of on board braking effect, will do some tests, like Offgrids idea. Manual and moving are 2 different functions, if that makes sense:) Will report.
Mike Carter
2015 178
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2627 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by offgrid

Most brake controllers have an accelerometer in them that senses the tow vehicle decelerating and applies the trailer brakes proportionally to how fast the deceleration is. The manual control overrides this. Could it be that the brake controller is actually working OK but since the tow vehicle isn't moving its not sensing any deceleration so not activating the trailer brakes? Just a thought....
The factory F-150 TBC doesn't work that way, at least not on our 2015. Ours receives information from the truck's computer about how much brake pressure is being applied, and proportions trailer brakes accordingly. I'm just speaking about our 2015, because I don't really know how the 2011 works, but thought it might be similar.

On our 2015 the dashboard displays "trailer brake pressure", and it displays it proportional to how hard I am pressing on the brake whether the truck is moving or not.
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
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jato View Drop Down
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Posts: 3216 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 7:04pm
Yesterday I tried going 25 - 30 mph and hit the manual TBC all the way, the trailer barely brakes.  I also did a test going down a hill by our house 8% grade and again could tell no difference between using the factory TBC or the brake pedal.  With our Explorer if I were to do this (in the past) the brakes would lock up - using the slide on the TBC. 

Also, I recently changed bearings and greased, also cleaned the shoes and the drum housing with brake clean.  Took apart once just to make sure I didn't get grease on the shoes or drums; everything is squeaky clean.  Adjusted brakes so that there is just a small amount of rubbing where you can hear the shoe contacting the drum.
God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
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mcarter View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Location: Greenbrier, TN
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Posts: 3419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 7:15pm
I think mine does too. Will check out tomorrow.
Mike Carter
2015 178
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mcarter View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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Posts: 3419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2019 at 3:38pm
My display indicates when trailer brakes are hooked up and if circuit is complete. Then shows proportional braking signal in either manual or pedal applied, trailer does not need to be in motion. If there is a circuit break I get an error message
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
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