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offgrid View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Apr 2019 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by podwerkz

 

0.85 is optimistic, I've seen compressors show .5 or less....

Ouch

I doubt its that low, most compressors I've seen are around the 0.8 to 0.9 power factor range. Also, that would mean the a/c unit was only drawing about 880 watts true power, giving it an EER of around 15.  That would be unrealistically efficient. 

But, if anyone has a true power meter it would be interesting to get an actual measurement. I don't currently have accesss to one that will handle the required current (the little kill-a-watt units are only rated to 15A).
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Lisa Paul Jennings View Drop Down
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Posts: 15 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2019 at 7:41pm
Thanks to everyone who replied to my post.  Its very nice to get such well informed responses.  I did look at solar but most of our camping is in the northeast with mostly dappled shade.  I'm thinking of either a Generac or a WEN, 2000 watt.  They both have good reviews. If anyone knows of these two, let me know what you think.

Thanks!
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Happy Tripping View Drop Down
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Posts: 473 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 6:51am
Originally posted by Lisa Paul Jennings

I'm looking to buy a quiet generator, primarily to charge our two batteries.    I can get about four nights  but would like to be able to stay longer without worrying about battery capacity. 

I am surprised you only get 4 days. In a 171 I get three to four with one Group 24. (We use headlamps a lot at night.)

I assume your two are not 6 volt golf cart batteries but Group 24s. Just as a cheaper suggestion than a generator, for a 'minimalist' approach, how about two Group 27s?
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Tars Tarkas View Drop Down
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Posts: 1446 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 7:16am
Originally posted by Happy Tripping

I am surprised you only get 4 days. In a 171 I get three to four with one Group 24. (We use headlamps a lot at night.)

I assume your two are not 6 volt golf cart batteries but Group 24s. Just as a cheaper suggestion than a generator, for a 'minimalist' approach, how about two Group 27s?

The thing about batteries is that if they aren't recharged they will eventually run down no matter how many you have or how big they are.  With a 2000+ watt generator you can keep your batteries charged and while doing so, run the microwave or coffee maker and/or other 120v appliances.

It can be a lot to lug around, but if you're okay with that, and the very common campground generator hours, that are sometimes more restrictive than "quiet hours" (sometimes generators aren't allowed at all -- always check), and the fact that if your neighbors can hear it they will hate you (unless they also have a generator), a generator is a great solution and can really provide some peace of mind.

Be sure you get the quietest generator you can afford that will do the job you want.

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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 7:26am
Group 24's are generally about 80 amp hours, Group 27's are about 90, so about 12% more capacity.  GC2's are about 220AH, so about 37% more. That is the best way to go (short of investing in Li batteries) if you're replacing your current battery(ies) and want as much capacity as possible.  Note that you shouldn't take any lead acid battery down below about 50% state of charge if you want it to last.

Electrical requirements vary a lot by personal choice and especially weather. For example, below is my typical summertime usage in warm to hot weather. Totals about 70 AH/day so I get about a day and a half to 50% depth of discharge out of my GC2's. 3/4 of that load are fans that are generally on 24/7 when its pretty hot.  Fans are big energy hogs.  If I hit a nice period with no heating or cooling I drop to only about 16 AH/day and can go close to a week on the two GC'2. 

Lisa Paul Jennings, I don't have any experience with those particular gennies but I think in your situation getting a 2 to 2.4 kw generator is a good choice. Its going to be about 50 lbs so not too bad to lift but large enough that you can choose in the future to run your microwave or even your a/c if you install an easy start device. I suggest getting one that has a continuous duty rating of at least 1600-1700 watts. Also, you might want to look at a dual propane/gasoline one so you don't have to carry gasoline around while camping. 


item dc current qty hours/day amphours/day
incidentals 0.1 1 24.0 2.4
single led lite 0.2 4.0 2.0 1.6
dual led lite 0.4 1.0 2.0 0.8
bath lite 0.3 1.0 0.2 0.1
outside lite 1.4 1.0 0.1 0.1
fantastic fan h 2.8 1.0 0.0 0.0
fantastic fan m 1.9 2.0 0.0 0.0
fantastic fan l 1.3 1.0 24.0 31.2
water pump when on 5.0 1.0 0.2 1.0
Radio 0.4 1.0 8.0 3.2
heater when  on 2.0 1.0 0.0 0.0
water heater when on  0.6 1.0 1.0 0.6
user defined
6 in dc fan 0.5 2.0 24.0 24.0
TV  (12V not 120V) 1.5 1.0 4.0 6.0
user defined 0.0 1.0 0.0 0.0
user defined 0.0 1.0 0.0 0.0
total 71.0

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Tars Tarkas View Drop Down
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Posts: 1446 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 8:04am
As for the easy-start capacitor installation for the air conditioner, if you're going to get a generator, try the air conditioner without doing the easy-start thing first, if you even care about running the air.  You may (likely) won't need it.  My air con works fine with my Yamaha EF2400iSHC.  It might be less expensive, and more useful, to get a generator with a few more watts than a smaller generator and the easy-start kit.

Generator watts correlate to pounds is the only caveat.  You can get a 3500+ watt generator that will run everything with no question but you'll need a gorilla with a forklift to move it around.

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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Posts: 966 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 3:48pm
I just tested my pod with my kill-a-watt meter inline with the shore power cord to my home.

Microwave display on but not cooking, propane detector on, LED lights off, USB port lit but not charging anything, radio off but lit up, vent fan off. No other items such as furnace, fridge, or water heater powered up. Typical stand-by setting.

About 20 watts draw, with a few short bursts to around 100 watts on stand-by (converter/charger on, presumably cycling a bit)

PF was reading around 0.54

When I cranked up the roof A/C, wattage read about 1175, with some spikes observed (presumably the converter charger again) Amps reading was in the mid 10's, about 10.2-10.8 or so.

PF read 0.95, and there was a voltage 'sag' on my cordset from about 121v down to about 115v. 

I was not able to observe the start-up surge for the roof air unit due to the kill-a-watt not being able to track that, and also, it's not where I can see it when I turn on the roof air.
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offgrid View Drop Down
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 4:19pm
Great you did that podwerkz, I was afraid of smoking my kill-a-watt. 0.95 pf on the a/c is better than I thought it would be.  There must be pretty good power factor correction on it.  

1175 watts at 115V with 0.95 pf works out to only 10.75A though, which is much lower than the 15.3A I was getting in hot conditions last summer, which at 0.95pf works out to 1671 watts. I'm guessing your a/c wasn't building up much back pressure due to pretty mild temp conditions. What were the outside and inside temperatures during the test? 

The kill-a-watt is too slow for the a/c start surge. But it probably doesn't really matter. Either it starts reliably or it doesn't.  The running power factor is more useful because that tells us how much energy the a/c requires. If its producing 13.5 kbtu/hr cooling on a hot day using 1671 watts then its EER is only about 8, which is terrible compared to high quality modern inverter based minisplit units, some of which have an EER exceeding 15. 
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Happy Tripping View Drop Down
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Posts: 473 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by podwerkz

I just tested my pod with my kill-a-watt meter inline with the shore power cord to my home.

Thank you but I am afraid that I speak for a lot of electrically-challenged people when I ask you to give us a 'bottom line' on your investigation. I did an internet search for 'PF' and I don't think you were referring to 'pension funds'.  

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podwerkz View Drop Down
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Posts: 966 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2019 at 5:28pm
Oh sorry, PF in the context of a kill-a-watt meter and AC 120v wattage readings, means 'power factor', which is kinda technical but essentially means how efficient is the power being used...apparent power vs true power. Just thru it in for mr offgrid since we referred to it earlier in the thread.

The ambient temps were at about 88 degrees with full sun on the roof, partial sun on the side of the trailer, and starting interior of the pod temp at about 92. It cooled down to around 75 in about a half hour, of course I was cycling the A/C on purpose and the door was opened and closed several times. No attempt was made to super-cool the pod nor measure the cool-down time.
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