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Topic Closedwired for solar...sorta! (MC4s on the roof)

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: wired for solar...sorta! (MC4s on the roof)
    Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by podwerkz

 

Interesting read, most of that info I had already seen, but more info is good.

The WFCO is only bringing the Battle Born battery up to about 13.6 or so, which is of course, fine for lead acid.  I hope and assume that will be enough for my use, for now, but we will see once I get the solar controller and panels installed. 

I say '13.6 or so', because FOUR digital meters read slightly differently, varying from 13.60 to 13.78...its like having four watches that all read different times. The only Fluke I have does not display tenths. Bummer.   

Yeah I bought this BB battery for another use, long before I was even looking for a small camp trailer, I'm just thinking since I have it, I'd like to use it there. But I'm not 'stuck' with it, I can always swap in the stock Interstate battery if this 'upgrade' does not work well.

Thinking about all the work moving the BB battery inside the pod, re-routing all the cables, installing a LI compatible converter upgrade, and then 'babysitting' the BB battery as far as temps and SoC....plus the investment in the battery itself...makes my head spin! Adding water to the old-school Interstate battery a few times a year does not seem so bad after all, even with less amp-hours available.

If by some turn of bad luck, if I leave the expensive BattleBorn in the box on the trailer tongue, and someone steals it, jeeze. A lot of expense to me, for some tweaker/thief to get $5 at the local salvage yard!

In fact, I have a few PWM and MPPT solar controllers (for lead acid batteries) on hand already, and using one for the roof panel and one for the portable panel will greatly simplify things. 

I may end up going that route, for now. 

 

You won't need to worry about the Li battery temp if you have it inside the trailer. Just disconnect any loads and charge sources from it while you're in cold storage. One nice thing about Li is that you can leave it at just about any SOC while in storage. Do that with PbA and its a boat anchor. When you want to use it just heat up the trailer a bit before charging the battery. 

Re watching out for SOC, the upper end will take care of itself if you have your controller set around 14.2 or 14.4. Not sure you need to change from the WFCO controller. The only time it might be a problem is if you were relying on the generator rather than solar for charging while boondocking.  In that rare event you could also charge it from your tow vehicle which would give you 14.4V max. 

You probably would want to have your controller keep an eye on the low side SOC so you don't have to fret about that. It looks like the Relogy controller has an LV alarm function but its set at 11.1 for PbA, too low for your Li battery. Not sure if you can adjust that. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

I think there is still ample reason to believe that lithium batteries can get below $100/KWH. Current projections are that will happen in 2020. With so many manufacturers getting into it, we could get well below that in 2023. We will see.


I agree that Tesla and probably all the big auto manufacturers are probably already down around $100/kwh for Li battery cells now in high volume OEM purchasing without packaging, electrical connections, or a BMS.

But for us, small scale packaging, BMS electronics, and retail sales and distribution is going to double to triple that on our little 1 khw batteries vs the 50-80 kwh EV packs. But $250/kwh is way less than $900 and less than some high end PbA batteries cost now. At that point going to Li is a no brainer really. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 2:46pm
If larger lithium batteries can see a downward push on price, then it seems to me that market forces will push lead-acid battery prices down also. 

Making the cost differential, more or less the same percentage. Or so it seems to me.

But, my crystal ball is on the fritz...so who knows.

I went back out there and put the 'analog' Interstate battery back in the box on the tongue, and test fit the 'digital' BattleBorn battery and battery box inside the converter compartment. After moving one bundle of wires, it all fits very nicely.

There is an LED light at the end of the worm-hole tunnel!


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 3:24pm
PbA could come down some I guess, especially if proliferation of Li batteries reduced the demand for lead.  Something like 85% of total lead produced is used in batteries and 99% of that is recycled.  So that could drop like a stone in price if everyone converted to Li batteries. 

But most PbA batteries are SLI type for regular ICE cars and trucks and there's not much reason to change those over to Li. The big consumers for Li will be EV manufacturers with an increasing amount for grid tied energy storage to balance out renewable power generation.  That's not really displacing any PbA batteries. Our RV house use is small potatoes in comparison. 

Looks like you have a winning location there where you won't have any problem running your battery load cables.  I guess you can still use the roof pv wires you found and just connect them to the exisitng battery cables at the tongue to run back to the new battery location. Can you fit your controller in the converter compartment too? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 5:28pm
Well, for now, I took the path of least resistance. (see what I did there?)

I simply dropped in a deep-cycle group 24 into the new battery box in the converter compartment, and ran parallel wires to the factory circuit breaker. 

45 pounds vs about 30 for the BattleBorn. Yeah I know, fumes etc...I can install a vent or move the battery back to the tongue later. But it's only temporary and gives me two batteries, one rated at 101 ah and the other rated at 84 ah. 

This will greatly simplify the solar controller and inverter situation.

The main thing is that I located the wires coming from the roof MC4s...which was the original topic...

BTW, I heard from Forest River via email. 

They will provide no information since I am not, according to them, the 'registered owner' of the VIN on the trailer.

Jeeze.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 5:35pm
FR's response figures. 

Not sure I undertand. Are you paralleling the Li and PbA batts?  That wouldn't work out because the voltage vs soc curves are very different. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 5:56pm
lol...no...I dropped in a deep-cycle group 24. Lead acid.

The two lead acid group 24s are now in parallel, until I change things...which I will.

Just got tired of messing with it today.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 6:04pm
Oh and ummm..just want to be sure, and not meaning to be insulting in any way, but you do know its not stinky sulphuric acid fumes you need to worry about from PbA batts, right? PbA batts when charging will evolve hydrogen gas -  odorless - explosive - next to a charger and fuse and breaker panel - sparks? think Hindenberg?? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 6:47pm
Yep...I do know about that stuff. I mentioned fumes and ventilation...that's a tip-off, kinda. But it's good to point out in case others reading this thread dont know. Like I said, its temporary during all this testing.

I had this other brandy new group 24 sitting around....looked like a good fit. For now...

The other thing about these lithiums in a towable RV...charge line voltage from the vehicle. Most tow vehicles cant do a decent job of maintaining, let alone charge, a lithium battery in the trailer thru the charge line in the 7way trailer cord. Thats another reason for me to seperate the 12v systems.

And if the fridge is on DC while underway, fo-get-about-it. (small compressor fridges, yeah, absorption fridge nope)

If the battery-to-battery chargers weren't so dang expensive I'd just drop one of those in there.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2019 at 7:23pm
yah I got the hint, just wanted to be sure so I didn't feel bad about it later if I later read about you turning an rPod into a little exploding dirigible on the internet LOL.  Now I'll sleep soundly...

I think you'd be Ok getting a reasonable charge from the TV even with the fridge on 12V, that takes about 11  and you ought to get 20+ from your alt depending on what gauge wire is running to the trailer. My GC2's seem to always end up fully charged when I get to the campsite and I always run my fridge on 12V while towing. Not because I'm afraid of the propane but because I usually have to go over one of the Norfolk area bridges and they make everyone turn off their propane.  

If by battery to battery you mean dc-dc converters Victron makes some interesting ones but they're all either buck or boost (step down or up) except one which is buck-boost and is really spendy. I plan to get a 24 to 12 buck one to run the trailer 12V circuits from the 22v Tesla battery and a couple of 12 to 24V boost ones to charge the Tesla battery from my TV. 
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