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GlueGuy
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Joined: 15 May 2017
Location: N. California
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Topic: Simple Q re: Winterization Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 1:10pm |
That's curious. The low point drains on our RP-179 hang down maybe 4 inches. Speculating whether there is some sort of siphon going on when you blow out the lines?
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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost
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furpod
Moderator Group - pHp
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Location: Central KY
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Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 1:14pm |
We have seen pods with a foot of line hanging out, and some cut so short they were flush with the Pod bottom..
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jato
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Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Location: Kewadin, MI
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Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 2:53pm |
.Our low point drains hang down about 2" below the frame. That tells you they used a LOT of foam to cover everything up, they didn't want that plastic to corrode from all that Michigan road salt.
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God's pod
'11 model 177
'17 Ford F-150 4WD 3.5 Ecoboost
Jim and Diane by beautiful Torch Lake
"...and you will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free."
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offgrid
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Joined: 23 Jul 2018
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Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 5:31pm |
Originally posted by furpod
But.. I have had my low points freeze solid down to 0F with pure water in them, and it didn't hurt them. We don't winterize to protect the lines. The lines and "plumbing" are PEX, and PEX rated, so freezing literally cannot hurt them.
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While its much less likely to damage pex rubing from freezing than for example Cu pipe, it is certainly possible.
Bursting becomes more likely over time as the plastic ages and becomes more brittle, like all plastics do.
I researched this when I replaced all the plumbing in my house with pex 3 years ago. We all have hose lines exposed to freezing under our elevated houses here. I drain those in the winter. I love pex but I'm not confident to leave plain water in the exposed low point drain lines in my pod.
The other problem with pex is that it is damaged by UV exposure, so should never be left exposed to sunlight for long periods. Some of the longer low point drains hang down enough to get sun exposure at times.
Personally, I think the best approach is just to remove the low point drains entirely. They aren't really needed for freeze proofing with either air or antifreeze and provide a place where the rPod plumbing is exposed to freezing, UV, and physical damage.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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furpod
Moderator Group - pHp
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Location: Central KY
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Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 6:46pm |
Originally posted by offgrid
Originally posted by furpod
But.. I have had my low points freeze solid down to 0F with pure water in them, and it didn't hurt them. We don't winterize to protect the lines. The lines and "plumbing" are PEX, and PEX rated, so freezing literally cannot hurt them.
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While its much less likely to damage pex rubing from freezing than for example Cu pipe, it is certainly possible.
Bursting becomes more likely over time as the plastic ages and becomes more brittle, like all plastics do.
I researched this when I replaced all the plumbing in my house with pex 3 years ago. We all have hose lines exposed to freezing under our elevated houses here. I drain those in the winter. I love pex but I'm not confident to leave plain water in the exposed low point drain lines in my pod.
The other problem with pex is that it is damaged by UV exposure, so should never be left exposed to sunlight for long periods. Some of the longer low point drains hang down enough to get sun exposure at times.
Personally, I think the best approach is just to remove the low point drains entirely. They aren't really needed for freeze proofing with either air or antifreeze and provide a place where the rPod plumbing is exposed to freezing, UV, and physical damage. |
You are correct, in just the right conditions, PEX can rupture. It's usually line pressure, but again, in just the right conditions, freezing has done it. I try to never talk in absolutes, and I did here. Sorry. In MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, dealing directly with hundreds, if not thousands of Podders, 'streamers, and Lancers at this point, I have neither trouble shot or repaired a PEX line in a camper that had burst from freezing, and I don't recall anyone having it happen.
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JR
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Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Location: Manistee, MI
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Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 6:59pm |
So what is the purpose of the low point drains in the plumbing system on the r-pod - maybe a gravity winterization application??? I don't get it.
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Jay
179/2019
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Tars Tarkas
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Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Location: Near Nashville
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Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 7:28pm |
Originally posted by JR
So what is the purpose of the low point drains in the plumbing system on the r-pod - maybe a gravity winterization application??? I don't get it. | When there is no water pressure and faucet valves are open, opening the low point drains will suck most of the water out of the pod. Less water means antifreeze will be less diluted and have a lower freezing temperature. Less likelihood of frozen valves or pump.
TT
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2010 176
FJ Cruiser
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JR
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Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Location: Manistee, MI
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Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 7:41pm |
Thanks TT, that makes sense, I guess I was trying to make more out of it.
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Jay
179/2019
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offgrid
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Joined: 23 Jul 2018
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Posted: 21 Feb 2019 at 6:14am |
Originally posted by furpod
In MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, dealing directly with hundreds, if not thousands of Podders, 'streamers, and Lancers at this point, I have neither trouble shot or repaired a PEX line in a camper that had burst from freezing, and I don't recall anyone having it happen.
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Agreed, I haven't heard of in RV's it either. In residential use it seems like it tends to occur when an ice plug forms in the line and then the water between the ice plug and a fixture freezes and has nowhere to expand to. I suspect it will get more common as pex ages. It has a stated life expectancy of 40-50 years if not exposed to UV. Pex first came into use in plumbing about 20-25 years ago.
My conclusion is that if you use the low point drains as intended then there is no freezing risk from them, there will either be air or antifreeze in them. If you don't use them then why not remove them, or as much of them as possible? If you do keep them then protect them (with pipe insulation or some other material) from UV and flying rocks, especially if they hang down about a foot like mine did. That seems ridiculous to me.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft
2015 Rpod 179 - sold
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mjlrpod
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Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Location: Massachusetts
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Posted: 21 Feb 2019 at 8:05am |
This would have been a great conversation.......................... Three months ago. I guess everyone misses camping
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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195
2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl
I'll be rpodding
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