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Topic ClosedFR 50 to 30 amp warning
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mcarter View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Location: Greenbrier, TN
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Posts: 3419 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: FR 50 to 30 amp warning
    Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 5:26pm
So - you have a pedestal with a 50A and a 30A outlet, you plug into the 30A and you get 120V, 30A capability at 3600 watts. You get out your dogbone and plug your 30A connector into the 50A connector which has 2 independent 120Vs and about 12000 watts capability, however the dogbone only gives one 120V circuit and how is it that you can exceed the 3600 watt capability of your 30A service? I don't think you can.
Mike Carter
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 5:42pm
mcarter, its not about how many watts of load.

Its about the amps you can see in your conductors under fault conditions. The circuit the dog bone is connected to has overcurrent protection rated at 50A. The dog bone is required to use 6 AWG conductors which can handle 50A. The cord you connect into he conductors and the conductors between the receptacle on your trailer and the trailer power center are not rated for 50A, only for 30. Hence these conductors can overheat and start a fire in the event of a fault current which exceeds 30A but is less than the 50A that can trip the 50A service breaker. 

Hope that makes sense. 
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mcarter View Drop Down
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Posts: 3419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 5:47pm
Sure, it does. I can't find any RV authority that warns against this. I guess we are back to the "risk" discussion, like a lightning strike, BTW I have been thru a propane explosion. Thanks.
Mike Carter
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Keith-N-Dar View Drop Down
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Posts: 1447 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by offgrid

No, it is not the same thing as for example a table lamp that uses 16 gauge wire. The conductors between the receptacle on the trailer and the panel are not temporary wiring like a table lamp, they are permanent, and as such the NEC applies. The NEC is intended to keep those conductors from overheating and causing a fire. The breaker in the trailer panel does not protect those conductors as it is downstream from the source feeding the conductors.  

As I said, there are plenty of electrical faults which are sufficiently resistive that they do not trip the breaker. Not only can I imagine them, I've seen them. So, it is your option to use one of the dog bones but know that there is risk involved in doing that. 

if you don't believe me, that's fine, go read the warning label underneath your trailer receptacle. 



Name one that exists in the cable.
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adventurelust View Drop Down
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Posts: 20 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 6:41pm
OK, I think we ran this subject into the ground. Next!
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 7:44pm
Sure, Keith-N-Dar, water entry creates corrosion which results in a current limited line to ground fault across the receptacle pins. Then you add 28 amps of ac load by running the microwave and air con simultaneously. Voila, overheated conductors. That kind of thing happens all the time, especially ground faults, and especially in wet location applications, which RV cabling is. There are at least two people on the limited sample of this forum who have experienced these kind of faults. 

In fact, come to think of it, I had a similar fault occur just yesterday, but on my house, not my RV. I just returned home after Florence and had corrosion in one of my receptacles resulting in a current limited line to line fault. Outdoor rated enclosure but nothing really stands up to blowing salt water from a hurricane. Didn't know it was there until I tripped my breaker after adding a load to that circuit. Ask me if I was glad I had a properly sized breaker on that line....

Well mcarter.... Forest River warns against it, right on the label....

And mcarter, yikes re the propane explosion, sorry to hear that. Can you share the causes and results, maybe we'd all learn something from that?

By all means adventurelust, let's move on, I for one am not out to get anyone to change their mind. I only object to mis- or incomplete information  because I think someone else who later reads this thread needs to have the facts in order to make an informed decision. 
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Posts: 473 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by adventurelust

OK, I think we ran this subject into the ground. Next!

Uh, ... actually, no.

When something becomes tedious to us, we have the choice of simply not reading the thread (or whatever it's called). 

Because I don't understand the issues in this topic, I am still getting benefit from it.

My summary - 
1. 50-30 amp dog bones may be hazardous to your health.

2. 50-30 amp dog bones may be required for electricity at certain rv places.

I guess I'll get one for when it's required for electricity. I like A/C.
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2629 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 10:28pm
If the dogbone included a 30 amp breaker, all would be good.
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Posts: 5290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2018 at 6:49am
That would work GlueGuy but I doubt there is a listed inline wet location circuit breaker available. There are inline fuse assemblies, which would also work, they’re used in solar installations, so they’re wet location rated but probably not ac rated. And if you created your own assembly it wouldn’t be listed so that would be another code violation.

The best and in the end easiest way to do this would probably be just to convert the trailer to 50A service. Lots of people have upgraded older trailers that way. The equipment is listed, readily available and not too expensive, but it would require some labor. You’d need to install a new distribution panel and power inlet box and conductors between the two. And buy a 50a cord and a 30 to 50a dog bone if you still wanted to connect at 30a. That dog bone is safe from the over current problem. And then if you wanted your rPod REALLY cold you could install a second ac unit
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mcarter View Drop Down
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Posts: 3419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2018 at 3:37pm
Read all the posts again, and have decided to keep my 50 to 30 dogbone and use like I have in past for times when the 30A is non existent or has problems. BTW - I do not have any warning decals on my pod, but I can understand the concern to a point. One thing I will say a lot of RV sites claim the 50A service is 2 - 25A legs and it is NOT. It is 2 50A legs, Furpod is spot on. Once again a judgment call to me, but where I stand for what it's worth.
Mike Carter
2015 178
" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
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