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offgrid 
Senior Member 
Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
 Topic: FR 50 to 30 amp warningPosted: 18 Sep 2018 at 1:34pm |
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furpod, your salient statement is "if you camp with hookups". Since I never do, this will not be a problem for me personally.
 Clearly, the code writers have recognized that there is a problem here that needed to be addressed, or the NEC would not have been changed to require 30A receptacles on all pedestals that have 50A receptacles. The NEC is about safety not convenience. Commercial interests would have fought it and it wouldn't have been approved if there wasn't a safety problem. Looks like the applicable test standard for the dog bones is UL 817. I found a 2011 version online and it has requirements that would assure that the dog bone is able in this case to handle 50A (type of connector, wire gauge, molding materials, but doesn't specify anything about what it's connected to. This is pretty typical of UL specs, they tend to be limited to assurance that the product itself is safe and don't extend beyond that. What I was looking for is the actual instructions that are provided with the product. I would have thought that limitations and safety warnings would be part of those in order to limit manufacturer liability. As i said, everyone needs to make a personal decision about risks each is willing to take. Sometimes one can know too much about a topic. I've seen way too many electrical faults of many different kinds to knowingly want to create a condition where they can occur. Especially not one that could trap my family in a little burning box. I've never seen a propane explosion so that doesn't bother me so much, but maybe it should. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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adventurelust
Newbie 
Joined: 16 May 2017 Location: Ventura, CA Online Status: Offline Posts: 20 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 1:49pm |
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Ul listed for 50 amps, but what about the reverse input receptacle and adjoining cable? Seems that they would need to be addressed also, but maybe I'm getting too technical. Frankly if it came down to power, or no power I would opt to use the adapter, regardless of the risks.
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"Eighty percent of success is showing up" Woody Allen
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp
Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 2:11pm |
It is possible that the breaker for that circuit is in a building. It isn't as if the RV park would have no breakers. We stayed in one like that and were told where to find the breaker if needed.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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offgrid
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 2:31pm |
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The UL listing for the dog bone only addresses the dog bone. It is sure enough safe to connect to 50A.
The NRTL is putting up an SEP (somebody else's problem) field around the dog bone. They were asked to evaluate and list a product to a standard and they did. If you've ever read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy you'll know what an SEP field is. If you haven't read it, you should Besides, the manufacturer is their customer, not the consumer. Now its a little different for the manufacturer. They can't knowingly sell something to a consumer that creates an unsafe condition in normal use and hide behind the argument that its listed. Well they can try but they wouldn't be in business for very long that way. Internal memos from their engineers to management are discoverable and can lead to juries handing out huge product liability settlements.... That's why I'm curious to see what the instructions that come with the dog bone say. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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offgrid
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 2:41pm |
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The 2017 NEC requires disconnecting means at the pedestal. Could be a switch or a circuit breaker. I don't know how long ago that became a requirement though.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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Keith-N-Dar
podders Helping podders - pHp
Joined: 03 Apr 2011 Location: Mayville, WI Online Status: Offline Posts: 1447 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 3:26pm |
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The Pod is protected by a main breaker. The power cord draw is limited to the amperage of that breaker, unless there is dmage to the cord. A sudden defect causing a short circuit would cause sufficient draw that would trip the 50 amp breaker on the pedestal. I can't imagine any situation that would cause the cord to create heat and catch fire. This is like plugging a device with a number 16 power cord into a twenty amp outlet. The wire is much to small to carry 20 amps but we do it all the time. The
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Keith-N-Dar
Boris & Betty (Boston Terriers) 2011 R-Pod 177 2010 Ford F-150 |
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adventurelust
Newbie
Joined: 16 May 2017 Location: Ventura, CA Online Status: Offline Posts: 20 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 3:57pm |
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I see it all the time, where a connection is marginal, but is not enough current flow to cause the circuit breaker to trip, or a fuse to blow. It's kind of like a high impedance heater coil, but without the controlled resistance. True we use lamp cord all the time for appliances, but if you look at something with allot of wattage, the cord is usually sized for the load. JMHO
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"Eighty percent of success is showing up" Woody Allen
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offgrid
Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 4:12pm |
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No, it is not the same thing as for example a table lamp that uses 16 gauge wire. The conductors between the receptacle on the trailer and the panel are not temporary wiring like a table lamp, they are permanent, and as such the NEC applies. The NEC is intended to keep those conductors from overheating and causing a fire. The breaker in the trailer panel does not protect those conductors as it is downstream from the source feeding the conductors. As I said, there are plenty of electrical faults which are sufficiently resistive that they do not trip the breaker. Not only can I imagine them, I've seen them. So, it is your option to use one of the dog bones but know that there is risk involved in doing that. if you don't believe me, that's fine, go read the warning label underneath your trailer receptacle. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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lgblau
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Feb 2018 Location: Arizona Online Status: Offline Posts: 140 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 5:04pm |
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StephanH....Are you serious. Like I’m going to look all over the rv park to find a buliding that has the breaker for my outlet.
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Leonard🌵
2017/179 2017 Ram 1500 |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp
Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 5:24pm |
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I did not need to find the breaker since we did not have any issues. I don't think we will be returning to that particular RV park again. You don't need to look all through the RV park, just ask at the office.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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FR 50 to 30 amp warning