FR 50 to 30 amp warning |
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TheBum
Senior Member Joined: 26 Feb 2016 Location: Texas Online Status: Offline Posts: 1407 |
Topic: FR 50 to 30 amp warning Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 3:19pm |
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I'm really surprised that someone doesn't make a 50-to-30A adapter with a built-in 30A breaker. Wouldn't that solve the problem?
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Alan
2022 R-Pod 196 "RaptoRPod" 2022 Ram 1500 Lone Star 4x4 Three cats |
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furpod
Moderator Group - pHp Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Location: Central KY Online Status: Offline Posts: 6128 |
Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 4:12pm | |
The fact that no one makes such a thing tells you how much of an issue it isn't.
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mcarter
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Location: Greenbrier, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 3419 |
Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 4:16pm | |
+1 :)
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Mike Carter
2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
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TheBum
Senior Member Joined: 26 Feb 2016 Location: Texas Online Status: Offline Posts: 1407 |
Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 4:49pm | |
True. I would take a special type of circumstance for it to be a problem, i.e. a sustained 30-50A load between the pole and the R-Pod's main breaker. A short would likely trip the pole breaker before any wiring in the Pod could fry. You could lose your surge suppressor though. |
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Alan
2022 R-Pod 196 "RaptoRPod" 2022 Ram 1500 Lone Star 4x4 Three cats |
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adventurelust
Newbie Joined: 16 May 2017 Location: Ventura, CA Online Status: Offline Posts: 20 |
Posted: 17 Sep 2018 at 2:39pm | |
The issue I see is the amperage. Unless you have some means of fault current/overload protection between the 50 amp and the 30 amp, you are exceeding the capacity of your cable and input connector.
Now, with that said, there is an exception in the National Electric code, which allows for 25 ft bus tap at 1/3rd the wire size of the bus, without overload protection at the source. I'm not sure if the NEC applies here, but the only safe way would be to change out the 50 amp circuit breaker to a 30 amp, or fuse it at the adapter. Don't confuse surge protection with overload, or fault current protection, they are three different things.
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"Eighty percent of success is showing up" Woody Allen
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 9:44am | |
Yes, the issue is the lack of overcurrent protection as the supply side of a 50A service will have overcurrent protection listed for 50A while the conductors (internal and external) and the AC distribution panel in your 30A RV will be designed to handle 30A. So it's up to you to decide if you want to take that risk or not. I personally wouldn't.
That is a real risk, not imaginary. If a fault occurs in the conductors between the dog bone and the distribution panel in your trailer you can overheat your conductors and/or terminations resulting in a fire. And no, not all faults are low resistance faults, so you can't count on any fault that occurs pulling enough current to clear the 50A service breaker. There's a reason why there are 15A breakers in your home distribution panel, you don't get to use that argument to allow use of 30A breakers to protect 14 gauge circuits.
And yes, the NEC does cover RVs. You can view it for free on the NFPA website if you want, it's NFPA 70. There is a dedicated section for RVs and for RV parks, Article 551. If you look at 551.71(C) it requires all RV park sites with a 50A receptacle to also have a 30A receptacle. Compliance with that is on the park owner not you. So, you should never need that dog bone in the first place if the electrical system in the park complies with the current version of the NEC. I'm carefully wording this to say "current version of the NEC" because the requirement for both 50A and 30A circuits on the pedestals only went into effect in the last code cycle, which was 2014. So its clear to everyone, property owners are not required by their authority having jurisdiction (typically the city or county building department) to modify their electrical systems every time a new code version comes out. Only new work is covered, and often the code version in effect in a jurisdiction is one code cycle out of date. Their insurance companies might have a more stringent requirement though. And if they start losing customers that would be a real incentive, so rather than use a dog bone, you may want is to politely tell them that they are not in compliance with the current version of the NEC and go stay somewhere else. Also 551.40(B) requires all electrical system components, including any cords and adapters, to be listed for the intended use. Compliance with that is on you, not the park owner, since you are providing them and connecting them. I've never looked at a 50A male to 30A female dogbone (and I don't plan to buy one), is that thing actually listed? If so, there should be a mark on it, typically in the US it would be UL or ETL. And there should also be instructions and use limitations that came with it, those are required as part of the listing. What do those say about how it is intended to be used? I'm curious because right now I don't see an application for it that assures safe use. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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furpod
Moderator Group - pHp Joined: 25 Jul 2011 Location: Central KY Online Status: Offline Posts: 6128 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 10:02am | |
Sooner or later, if you camp with hookups, you will find a pedestal where the 30A Looks like some one stuck a couple welding rods in them and moved them around, they will be arced and damaged. Sometimes, A lot. I have seen several through the years, and am always happy to see that near virgin, 50A connection. Random product description from the first hit on Amazon: RV Camp Power Pigtail Adapter Cord, NEMA 14-50P to NEMA TT-30R Rating: 50A 125/250V to 30A 125V Cable: 1.5FT STW 10/3 Approval: Plug, STW: UL, C-UL I need to start taking pictures of them so I can post them.. We had one this summer at the ERU that was literally rounded out by arcing and heat on the 30A connectors, but the 50A looked like it had been used about 3 times. Happily plugged in the dogbone. I could add them to my files where I keep videos and stuff about other things, like why we always use a water pressure regulator..
Off the gauge.. |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6288 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 10:23am | |
Or you will encounter a situation like we did at the campground in West Yellowstone where there were no 30A receptacles. It was either use an adapter or do without shore power. I chose to use an adapter (provided by the office). I have not purchased one since that has been the only time so far that I encountered that situation.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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lgblau
Senior Member Joined: 09 Feb 2018 Location: Arizona Online Status: Offline Posts: 140 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 10:52am | |
Just got back from a 14 day trip to Indiana. Most of the rv parks we stayed at did not even have a circuit
bracker to control the box. Hated that.
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Leonard🌵
2017/179 2017 Ram 1500 |
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adventurelust
Newbie Joined: 16 May 2017 Location: Ventura, CA Online Status: Offline Posts: 20 |
Posted: 18 Sep 2018 at 11:51am | |
That's interesting, because Indiana is where the majority of RVs are manufactured. They must know something that the rest of us don't.
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"Eighty percent of success is showing up" Woody Allen
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