Trailer Brake Controller Issue |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6289 |
Topic: Trailer Brake Controller Issue Posted: 07 May 2018 at 3:36pm |
Wow! That was not something easy to find as it would have looked just fine visibly. You got a good technician to figure that one out.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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PodWa
Newbie Joined: 11 Oct 2016 Location: Cheney, WA Online Status: Offline Posts: 36 |
Posted: 07 May 2018 at 2:02pm |
TRAILER BRAKE PROBLEM RESOLVED! There was a bad electrical connection at the driver's side backing plate. The technician replaced the crimp-on connectors at that location and now everything works perfectly. As I suspected, this problem was related to the backing plate replacement done a few weeks before our last trip, and the repair was at no cost to me.
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mcarter
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Location: Greenbrier, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 3419 |
Posted: 05 May 2018 at 2:51pm |
Thanks Glueguy, appreciate the info. That system for a Ford I think is very informative. Not only tells you when there is a electrical connect or light issue, but also when the trailer brake circuit is working. Learned something from this.
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Mike Carter
2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
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GlueGuy
Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2630 |
Posted: 05 May 2018 at 2:46pm |
I did these tests.
So the "Trailer disconnected" message comes in 3 different cases, 2 of which are when I am manually squeezing the trailer brake. The other "Trailer disconnected" message when there is no trailer actually connected. I could not simulate the broken tail light situation, but when we pulled the 4-pin from the connector and stepped on the brake I got a message about a malfunctioning tail light. Just a side note. Some of the above required me to cycle the ignition. The truck appears to re-assess the trailer status after the ignition has been turned off/on. |
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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
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mcarter
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Location: Greenbrier, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 3419 |
Posted: 04 May 2018 at 8:56am |
Glueguy - I appreciate this discussion and apologize for being over zealous. It won't happen again. I was wondering if we can do a little test with your F150? If your trailer is not connected and you go into your "Towing Status" and get the screen where the gain readout is on the left hand side - Do you get a display that says "No Trailer Detected"? I realize this is completely different than the Trailer Disconnected in other displays. If you were to connect a trailer I think the display will change and you will get the gain readouts as set. The "No Trailer Detected" is a standard, especially for Tekonsha designed TBCs, which I believe Ford is. Thanks.
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Mike Carter
2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
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mcarter
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Location: Greenbrier, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 3419 |
Posted: 03 May 2018 at 5:32pm |
BTW - here how tow command works on a Ford: The optional factory in-dash installed Ford Motor Company "TowCommand" integrated TBC (Trailer Brake Controller) system available and compatible on the heavy duty commercial Ford Super Duty line of trucks starting with the 2005 models. TowCommand has since been added to the full-size Ford F-150 pickup and the full-size Ford Expedition SUV. It is built and engineered jointly with Tekonsha who are known for their Prodigy TBC.
With adjustable +/- trailer braking gain in a digital readout from 0.0 (no trailer brakes) to 10.0 (full trailer braking) in 0.5 increments and a manual override lever (to test trailer braking action), the Ford 'built into the dash' TBC provides smooth braking even when pulling up to a 15,000 lb 4-axle conventional (receiver mounted) or 26,000 lb 4-axle 5th Wheel (bed/frame mounted) trailer. TowCommand being different from most aftermarket TBCs, ties into the trucks' computer and hydraulics, so it senses truck brake pressure and can apply trailer brakes as fast as the truck's brakes. Master Brake Systems 'BrakeSmart' TBC is the only other TBC that taps into the trucks hydraulic lines in modern trucks. The TowCommand TBC is made of three major components; the in-dash TBC module, a TowCommand master cylinder with a brake pressure transducer, and an activated PCM (Powertrain Control Module) parameter by a Ford dealer's NGS or WDS programming method. All 2005 and newer Ford Super Duty trucks are pre-wired for the TBC from the factory, no matter if the TBC option was ordered and installed at the time of the trucks assembly or not. Before ABS (Anti-lock Braking System) came to trucks in the 1980s, most TBCs were activated by the trucks' brake hydraulic action. In an emergency situation with the trucks ABS activated, Ford's TowCommand can automatically reduce the trailer brake pressure (gain) as it communicates with the truck's computer for faster reaction time with proportional trailer brake control, to prevent the trailer brakes from locking up even though trailers do not have ABS sensors. TowCommand will also inform the driver with an audible alarm and in the digital readout if the trailer wires and/or trailer disconnects from the truck. Next to the TowCommand is an empty storage tray or the $85 optional 4 AUX (auxiliary) toggle switches for winches, snow plow, off-road lights, etc. The only disadvantage, unlike aftermarket TBCs, is that it cannot be transferred from one truck to another. Another advantage, unlike aftermarket TBCs, any Ford service center can have it serviced. The TowCommand is covered by the standard bumper-to-bumper warranty as long as it is not discovered to be an actual trailer problem. The TowCommand has only been verified to be compatible with trailers having electric-actuated drum brakes (one to four axles) and not hydraulic surge or electric- From what I can ascertain - major complaint is the Towing App- and visible readout on dash doesn't show a brake failure versus a light failure. The APP provides basic connection info. From above it expalains that alrm sounds if a connection fail happens, but doesn't relate to brake failure. The TBC knows the system has issues but the app relays only electrical info. Interesting etrailer.com has article about Ford owners adding after market TBC because they want a trailer brake monitoring system, not an electrical system monitor. |
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Mike Carter
2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
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mcarter
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Location: Greenbrier, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 3419 |
Posted: 03 May 2018 at 4:58pm |
No - Glueguy, one last time - lights and brakes have nothing to do with each other the TBC senses the trailer thru the TBC control signal and works independently from the lights. Either or both can detect a trailer, only one effects what the OP describes and adding lights just confused the issue. The OP has a brake issue and trailer not connected, which is part of the TBC circuitry. The TBC circuit in your Ford does it too, just like LEOs did.
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Mike Carter
2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
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GlueGuy
Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2630 |
Posted: 03 May 2018 at 4:43pm |
Maybe 'm not being clear. The truck is saying "Trailer not Connected" (that may be paraphrasing). That is one issue. It's separate from the trailer brakes not working.
HOWEVER. If the truck thinks that there is no trailer connected, it may be that it has decided that there is nothing there, so has not enabled the trailer brake. What I am trying to say, and seem to be failing miserably at, is that it may be just that the truck is not sensing the trailer (as in through the lights), and therefore it is not turning on the power to the brakes. You guys may be right that the Ram senses the trailer via the TBC circuit (I know that our Ford does not do it this way). So what I'm trying to suggest is that the sensing of the trailer and the operation (or not) of the trailer brakes are potentially two different issues. |
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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
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mcarter
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Location: Greenbrier, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 3419 |
Posted: 03 May 2018 at 4:08pm |
Thanks LEO - the lights have zilch to do with brakes. The OP said he has a TBC issue - his lights work fine. The dealer said his truck is good. Easy to check, brake controller voltage on one wire. He has an intermittent trailer problem. Doesn't matter what year truck or make - brake control circuits are standard. Have to be.
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Mike Carter
2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
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Leo B
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 13 Jan 2012 Location: Lyndonville, VT Online Status: Offline Posts: 4508 |
Posted: 03 May 2018 at 4:02pm |
I think we are saying the same thing. I agree that lights have nothing to do with the brakes. Whatever wire that was busted didn't effect the lights. But when we applied the brake or used the TBC it would tell us the trailer was disconnected and the trailer brake wouldn't engage. All the trailer lights worked perfectly the whole time. Our issue was the truck not recognizing the pods brakes.
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Leo & Melissa Bachand
2017 Ford F150 2021 Vista Cruiser 19 csk Previously owned 2015 Rpod 179 2010 Rpod 171 |
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