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furpod View Drop Down
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Joined: 25 Jul 2011
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Posts: 6128 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cautionary Tale
    Posted: 24 May 2017 at 5:45pm
I hope, what ever a ATC 7X20 is, they have a forum, and you are expressing this there also.. In general, it just isn't an issue with pods. 
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Posts: 3419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 6:01pm
I don't know. Could the dealer determine weights at delivery, probably. But looking thru latest R-Pod brochure FR does a good job of info. Especially to specs and they match the decal on side of Pod. They are not responsible for what the owner does to TT after they take delivery. Manufacturers have no idea what mods the owner may apply. I think FR did a good job of informing buyers of what weights are and capacities and cautions at capacity. I weigh my trailer and I know the tongue weight with mods applied. It's my responsibility. Not sticking up for dealers, good, bad or ugly. The owner/operator has a responsibility, also. Happy Trails.
Mike Carter
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" I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability."
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Posts: 6285 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2017 at 7:49pm
+1
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Posts: 451 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 9:40am
I can't post any more of what is STILL transpiring until avenues of resolution have been exhausted. Still no final resolution yet. Hoping  for a return and replacement with a custom built trailer (which is what I thought I was buying). Hopefully good news by the end of next week. Otherwise....Lawyers win...
2017 ATC 7X20 Custom Toy Hauler
2013 R-Pod 177 (SOLD)
2013 VW Touareg TDI
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furpod View Drop Down
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Posts: 6128 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 9:54am
I can tell you, at least in part, why the manufacturer or dealer don't give exact numbers in the way you asked about.

Because it would take them tons of time and effort, and they would never be exactly right anyways. EVERYBODY loads and equips a trailer differently.

It's like asking "how much does a new truck cost? since there are only about a million different combinations.. the answer is..

The only time they KNOW the weight, is at the end of the assembly line, and that's the numbers they give you. Those are NEVER going to be the "How owner Bob loads and uses the trailer.". and can't be.

For instance, our Lance brochure says the 2295 is 4640 dry and 665 tongue, "dry weights"

Our yellow construction sticker says: 5178 with full propane tanks (3). So over 500lbs in options.

Doesn't give a tongue weight. Scaled, ready to camp, we are just about 980lbs at the tongue.

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Posts: 451 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 10:53am
Originally posted by furpod

I can tell you, at least in part, why the manufacturer or dealer don't give exact numbers in the way you asked about.

Because it would take them tons of time and effort, and they would never be exactly right anyways. EVERYBODY loads and equips a trailer differently.

It's like asking "how much does a new truck cost? since there are only about a million different combinations.. the answer is..

The only time they KNOW the weight, is at the end of the assembly line, and that's the numbers they give you. Those are NEVER going to be the "How owner Bob loads and uses the trailer.". and can't be.

For instance, our Lance brochure says the 2295 is 4640 dry and 665 tongue, "dry weights"

Our yellow construction sticker says: 5178 with full propane tanks (3).

No no no.... No one is demanding or asking the trailer makers to know how an OWNER will load or change their trailer.. They don't know Bob, and they don't care how he loads. Why should they.

 The makers of trailers DO know EXACTLY what each trailer off the line weighs!! They really really do!! They know axle weights, hitch weights, and gross weights, and empty weights and with propane and with a battery..All of it. 

Even when they have optioned a trailer differently, YES, they know precisely what that particular combination will weight!! They know because for safety's sake they had darn well better know!!.

 So ideally they could display:

Trailer No Cargo weight (INCLUDES PROPANE AND BATTERY) :XXXX pounds
Trailer tongue weight (INCLUDES PROPANE AND BATTERY): XXX pounds

Trailer weight with full fresh tank (INCLUDES PROPANE AND BATTERY) :XXXX pounds
Trailer tongue weight with full fresh (INCLUDES PROPANE AND BATTERY): XXX pounds

Trailer weight with full gray (subtract from fresh) tank (INCLUDES PROPANE AND BATTERY) :XXXX pounds
Trailer tongue weight with full gray (subtract from fresh) tank (INCLUDES PROPANE AND BATTERY): XXX pounds

Just these three characteristics would be an excellent starting position for ANY prospective owner. Tongue weights CHANGE when water is moved from the fresh tank to gray and black tanks. Black tanks are usually smaller and therefore don't get a lot of water, but they may be rear mounted or front or mid mounted depending where the toilet is on the floor plan.

Even adding a known battery weight on a battery tray should be a wight factor that is known, since the distance from the tongue is known and the distance from the rear axle is known. Just multiply the weight by the factor and there you go, increased tongue weight known instantly. No need to guess.

Adding a propane tank is the same. Known distances and known weights, you can easily get a factor for calculating accurate tongue weights.

Every trailer owner who loads heavily for a camping trip should OWN a tongue scale and use it just often enough to get a good feel for what their situation is. It wouldn't even need to be done every trip it the load is nearly always the same. Once those initial weights are shared by the trailer makers, an owner could make safe informed decisions. 

If the numbers that trailer makers actually advertise are plain WRONG, then they are entirely at fault, not the purchaser. Trying to place fault on a purchaser who has asked all the right questions about weights and made their tow vehicle capabilities KNOWN before making a purchase,  and been told the wrong information, then buy a trailer, and it is UNSAFE to tow with their tow vehicle is just plain wrong.

That's my predicament. A +370 pound tongue weight difference (no cargo) in what I was TOLD, and what the reality IS....
2017 ATC 7X20 Custom Toy Hauler
2013 R-Pod 177 (SOLD)
2013 VW Touareg TDI
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GlueGuy View Drop Down
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Posts: 2627 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 12:24pm
Well... In my opinion, you really didn't do your homework. I look at the specs for a Lance 2295, and it says dry weight is 4640, with a carrying capacity of 1760. That makes a gross weight of 6400 lbs.

Multiply that by 15%, and you get ~~ 960 lbs for a potential tongue weight. That's a CONSERVATIVE estimate, and you can influence that by loading a few more things behind the axles. I notice also that the axles are situated well to the rear, which will increase the tongue weight.

Would I try to tow that thing with a vehicle that only has 750 lb tongue weight max? No way. Get a new TV, or look at a different TT.

You get no sympathy from me.
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
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Bugout View Drop Down
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Posts: 117 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 1:20pm
I think the camper in ? Is atc 7x20 toy hauler I looked it up gvwr7700 tongue 751 tt w 3730  hears the kicker ball size 2 5/16" bigger ball difference in hitch class 
Jk Aiken South Carolina 2016 178 Toyota Tundra 2017 4.6
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Posts: 2627 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Bugout

I think the camper in ? Is atc 7x20 toy hauler I looked it up gvwr7700 tongue 751 tt w 3730  hears the kicker ball size 2 5/16" bigger ball difference in hitch class 
That would make it worse. A trailer that can tip the scales at 7700 lbs could easily have a tongue weight over 1000 lbs. In my opinion, you need at least a 1/2 ton pickup to pull that, and it would also require a WD hitch.
bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River
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furpod View Drop Down
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Posts: 6128 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by GlueGuy

Well... In my opinion, you really didn't do your homework. I look at the specs for a Lance 2295, and it says dry weight is 4640, with a carrying capacity of 1760. That makes a gross weight of 6400 lbs.


You get no sympathy from me.


Sorry.. you have two different posters confused here.

The OP is who is having a tongue weight issue. Though I do agree, he may have not done the right homework.. Like I said, on OUR 2295, it has a "as built weight sticker" on the door. (all 3 of our TT's so far have included an as built sticker, and I have personally seen them generated at the FR Pod plant in Goshen). That's all the more I think a manufacturer should give. The final weight and balance is up to the owner to figure out once they load it up their way.

We did our homework. That's why there is a Super Duty pulling our Lance. LOL

EDIT: Looks like this:
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