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Collapsible ladder |
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offgrid ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 02 Jan 2022 at 3:26am |
As in all life activities there are right ways and wrong ways to to do things. Don't for example use a $150 angle grinder without also using a $5 pair of safety glasses to protect your eyes. Duh.
Height of the fall is only one risk factor, and not the most significant one. I fell off the second step of a flimsy ladder while cleaning the upper sides and top of a horse trailer, an activity very similar to clearing debris from an rpod slide. But I ended up falling on my left side onto concrete. My left hip and elbow suffered hairline fractures so I was not a surgical candidate but also could not put weight on my left side for 6 weeks. Couldn't use crutches either because of the elbow. Couldnt operate a wheelchair either except on perfectly flat smooth surfaces for the same reason. I just went around in counterclockwise circles. Essentially I was completely helpless and yet not badly injured at all. Gave me lots of time to think. It was a wake up call for me I was just being dumb using that crappy ladder. First thing I did when I could work again was dumpster it. Ask me if I would have gladly spent $300-400 for a proper ladder. I climb ladders still now but invested in proper ones, no more stupid shortcuts. Im not at all risk averse. Heck, I own and fly an experimental aircraft. But I dont take stupid risks, I maintain it carefully, spend what I need to (aviation costs make RVs look like a bargain) and obtain professional advice in areas where I'm not an expert. We don't know what certifications the telescoping ladder the OP bought meets, which is exactly why some of us have made suggestions as to what specs are appropriate and shared our personal experiences as to why that's important. As always, do what you want, and I might have misinterpreted the last post, but I strongly disagree with the suggestion that $300 is too much to spend to assure ladder safety. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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Tars Tarkas ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Location: Near Nashville Online Status: Offline Posts: 1454 |
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I didn't say that or mean to imply that at all! I did say something meant to convey that spending more doesn't always equate to getting more (safety). I agree that it's not wise to skimp on safety. I guess I'm trying to say, match the tool and the level of safety required to the task at hand. For example, checking for debris on top of your slide-out simply doesn't require the same equipment you'd use to mount a TV antenna on your 2nd story chimney. You need to know something about what you're doing, be careful, and as I've said repeatedly, use some common sense. As far as proper equipment is concerned, you can have the best, newest, most expensive ladder in the world and still manage to kill yourself at least twenty different ways. TT
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2010 176
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lostagain ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595 |
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Tars, I think you got the impression that my experience has stopped me from working at heights. That's not the case. I am currently working in home construction as a volunteer carpenter and work off ladders and scaffolds often. In another month or so, we'll start framing a 2 story house and I'll be involved in stacking the roof and sheathing it.
My point is that one should not skimp when it comes to your safety. For example, I don't work using a type III ladder. By the time I add the weight of my tools I'm over the capacity of the ladder. I try to follow OG's suggestion of always having a healthy safety margin. And, as we get older, we have to recognize our balance is not as good as it once was, thus extra caution is warranted for geezers like me. Regarding my attempt to fly from a scaffold, you're right I should have inspected the boards. It was at the end of the day and there were only a few more fasteners I needed to install, so I rushed to get it done. That was a huge mistake on my part and I'm paying for it. Thankfully, I recovered pretty well and have learned to work around the resulting disabilities. So when it comes to climbing ladders, we all need to recognize the risk, use appropriate quality equipment, and be very careful because even a fall from a relatively low height can really do some damage.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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offgrid ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
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I think this is where we disagree. Common sense might suggest that because the height is low a lesser ladder is acceptable. I am here to say that's not the case. One can be seriously injured by a fall of 2 or 3 feet. I was. OTOH you can fall 2 stories and walk away. It all depends on what you fall on, how you hit, how old you are, the luck of the draw, the phases of the moon, whatever. IOW, don't scrimp because your common sense says it's only a couple of feet up. I did and paid the price. That's not to say that more expensive is always better. That's where 3rd party testing and certification to a set of standards comes in. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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lostagain ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595 |
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+1 to OG.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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Tars Tarkas ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Location: Near Nashville Online Status: Offline Posts: 1454 |
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This is getting silly. You can argue about ladders in the abstract all you want (but I don't see much, if any disagreement). Or we can talk about the OP's idea for a way to inspect the top of a slide-out. I think the gist of that idea was an easily stowable ladder that does that job. If you like that idea, you can go to Amazon, or wherever, and choose a ladder of that style that meets your safety requirements. The OP did not suggest buying some cheap piece of crap, or even a nice looking but unsafe ladder. We don't know what the safety specs are of his particular ladder though. I have no numbers to back this up, but I think ladder safety is more about the ladder user than the ladder itself. That applies to any kind of safety. Among the safety considerations are choosing the right tool, knowing how to use it, and using it correctly. If an accident happens, in many cases it will be a matter of user error or ineptitude, although it's usually easy to blame the tool. Makes us feel better. TT
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2010 176
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offgrid ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
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No one ever said that using a ladder to clean the slide top of an rpod was a bad idea. In fact, I said that is exactly what I do.
What LA and I are concerned about is using the proper ladder. Many, probably most, telescoping ladders are unsafe. That is not just our opinion, it is the evaluation of the professional testers at Consumer Reports. So, we shared our personal experiences and pointed out that there is an objective standard that can be applied to ladder selection here (as opposed to leaving it to the buyer's subjective opinion). You seemed to object to that based on cost. If so that is an area of disagreement. If not then no issues. Yes, it is silly to try to separate whether an accident is due to use of the wrong equipment or user error, because selecting the wrong equipment for a job is user error. Studies have shown that accidents are nearly always the result of several factors lining up wrong. That's why they are perceived to be accidents rather than inevitable outcomes. But statistically if you choose to take shortcuts to save time or dollars it will eventually catch up with you. So, safety requires a change in the operator's underlying work culture. Safety must not be an afterthought with cost or time savings coming first. That is how you break the chain of events that leads to injury or death. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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lostagain ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595 |
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+1 to OG's comment. If you have ever been injured in a ladder or scaffold fall, the issue is far from silly. Most ladder deaths involve falls from less than 10'. Telescoping ladders can be very convenient for inspecting the roof and slide outs of a travel trailer, but they have to be well constructed and used safely.
Telescoping ladders that meet OSHA standards are probably just fine, but they're very costly and heavy. Safety standards for consumer ladders, as opposed to those used in the work place, are sketchy and it's hard to be sure what you are buying is made of quality materials with a safe design. Personally, I would not use any ladder with an OSHA duty rating of less than type I. Perhaps an alternative to do a slide out roof inspection with out taking much of any risk, would be to use one of those cell phone camera masts that home inspectors use to take pictures of roofs. You could get a pretty good view of the slide out without having to lug around a heavy ladder and with relative safety, provided you're not in the middle of a lightning storm. This one reaches up almost 10' plus the height of the user: https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Lightweight-Extendable-Wireless-Compatible/dp/B074SGNWY9/ref=asc_df_B074SGNWY9/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309973029349&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9865401153636862017&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003304&hvtargid=pla-569148332320&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60473698983&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309973029349&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9865401153636862017&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003304&hvtargid=pla-569148332320
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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Tulefog ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Jun 2021 Location: California Online Status: Offline Posts: 51 |
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The camera extension is a good idea. A small broom with a flexible handle or joint at the base just above the broom head would probably work to clear debris. The bristles would have to be a little stiffer than the rubber seal, because things do get pushed under there.
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2021 Rpod 180 2006 Ridgeline
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Tars Tarkas ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Jan 2013 Location: Near Nashville Online Status: Offline Posts: 1454 |
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But, but, it's aluminum! What if you accidentally touched it to a hot wire?! And couldn't it act as a lightning rod? Forget about the fact you could poke someone's eye out with it. No thanks, I'm just gonna let anything on top of my slide stay there until it rots. This sounds way too dangerous to me. I didn't see any OSHA approvals or other safety certificates. No, sir, not me. You can risk it if you want! TT
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2010 176
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