Introduce yourself |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Topic: Introduce yourself Posted: 08 May 2020 at 6:08pm |
If Honda doesn't recommend using a wdh there is probably a good reason. I'd want to research others' experience carefully before using one. A wdh puts a very different load on the receiver and vehicle frame than does the straight vertical gravity load from the trailer tongue. It puts a significant torque (what mechanical and structural engineers call a moment) on the receiver. It is applying a moment that is trying to rotate the front axle of the tow vehicle down into the pavement. If the TV receiver and frame aren't designed for that you could bend the receiver and frame attachment upwards. And, the Pilot, like my Highlander are unibody construction, so a frame failure like that might be pretty pricey to fix. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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LAFN
Newbie Joined: 08 May 2020 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2 |
Posted: 08 May 2020 at 6:41pm |
Seen similar notes about weight distribution hitches with the Highlander so check your manual.
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 08 May 2020 at 7:48pm |
I long since did, been using a wdh for years. Toyota allows them. Perhaps you read a post by someone who doesn't like unibody frames?
Old school pickup drivers tend to believe that only body on frame construction is acceptable for towing. Not true. Its just that unibody doesn't provide much if any advantage in a pickup because there are no C and D pillars and roof to help carry the structural loads like there are in unibody SUV's, so pickups might as well be body on frame. Regardless of what type of frame you have you need to stay within its design specifications. All modern vehicles are designed using finite element modelling, its not guesswork on the part of the engineers. They know what their frames can and can't do. OTOH, unibody or body on frame, if you exceed the limitations you are effectively a test pilot. Doesn't mean you can't do it, just that you are entering unknown territory.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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CharlieM
Senior Member Joined: 23 Nov 2012 Location: N. Colorado Online Status: Offline Posts: 1797 |
Posted: 08 May 2020 at 8:13pm |
My two cents worth from my own experience: I towed an RP172 with a 2010 Pilot. It was 4WD rated at #4500. I used an E2 WDH and carried 2 bikes on the hitch between the TV and TT. Before buying the Pod I ran through lots of numbers. The limiting factor became Max Combined Weight at altitude since I would be towing in the Colorado Rockies. You have to derate engine capacity 2%-3% per 1000 feet for altitude. The rig worked fine and was able to climb the mountain passes, although not winning any races. There were times I was down to 20MPH in first gear but that was somewhat due to the strange gearing in the Honda. FWIW, read the Honda caution on WDHs carefully. They do not recommend WDH but they do no prohibit it either. They warn, correctly, that an improperly adjusted WDH can be dangerous. True for any WDH/TT/TV combination. The Pilot does have a Unibody but I'm not aware of anyone having trouble with it. My advice has always been read the WDH manual, re-read the manual, understand the manual, and set up the WDH yourself. Don't trust the "experts" at shops or dealerships. Few understand the equipment as well as they would like you to believe they do. All that said, the heavier Pods will be a challenge for the Pilots with the 3.6L engines. I would not recommend that combination but the lighter PODs are OK if your not climbing mountains. A good brake controller (Tekonsha P3) and a transmission fluid temperature monitor (not the idiot light) are essential.
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Charlie
Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 09 May 2020 at 5:47am |
Charlie's experience is the kind of information you need before embarking on your adventure.
One misunderstand that seems common with wdh's is that they will place the same load on both the TV's front and rear axles. If they are set up like that they are highly over tensioned. The front axle load on the TV goes down when the trailer is attached, and this effect is greater on shorter wheelbase vehicles. The proper wdh setup returns the TV front axle load to about what it was before the trailer was attached. You will still have more load on the rear axle of the TV with the trailer than without. For that reason its important with a lighter TV to keep the load in the cargo area as light and far forward as possible. This towing and wdh calculator might help you get things set up and let you know where you are near or over your vehicle limits. When you change the tension in the wdh in the calculator you can see the load on the front axle and trailer axle go up as the TV rear axle load decreases.
The Highlander also has a 3.5L V6 which I find more than adequate for towing, including up and down the Appalachians, but I don't tow in the high altitude west. I don't have high expectations for acceleration while hauling a trailer anyway. I agree about taking care with brake setup, TT brakes are basically crude 1950's tech and its easy to wind up with too much or too little braking action, or with one side braking more aggressively than the other. I make a few moderately aggressive stops from 40-50 mph before heading out and use an IR thermometer to be sure all the rig's brakes are getting roughly equally warm. Modern vehicle brake systems measure load on each wheel and direct hydraulic pressure to the more heaving loaded wheels. That is intended to maximize short duration emergency stopping action and balance braking while cornering, but it can create overheating on the rear TV brakes, which have much less capacity than the fronts, on long downhill grades while towing. Use engine braking as much as possible. Charlie, why a Tekonsha P3 rather than a P2? My understanding is that they are the same controller except the P3 adds memory features to allow the controller to be moved to different rigs easily. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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CharlieM
Senior Member Joined: 23 Nov 2012 Location: N. Colorado Online Status: Offline Posts: 1797 |
Posted: 09 May 2020 at 8:51am |
Primarily the more user friendly user interface of the P3. The display has a menu and presents real English words. The P2 is more cryptographic and requires searching for the instruction sheet to decode the displayed symbols. I've been down that road and didn't like it. A quote from Etrailer.com sums it up: "The main difference between them is the display, which for some makes the P3 a preferred option. In terms of functionality they are identical, but the P3 is for some more user-friendly. For the few extra dollars to get the P3, I think its a good investment." |
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Charlie
Northern Colorado OLD: 2013 RP-172, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L 4WD PRESENT: 2014 Camplite 21RBS, 2013 Supercharged Tacoma 4L V6 4WD |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6326 |
Posted: 09 May 2020 at 9:03am |
Another alternative is the Hopkins InSIGHT Flex-Mount proportional controller. Since this comes as three parts, they can be mounted in places that make sense. The control box is mounted under the dash out of sight. The manual control and adjusting buttons can be put in easy reach and the display can be placed where it is easily visible so you don't have to take your eyes off the road to see it. I have been very pleased with the performance of this controller. Also, when it is mounted, there is no chance of knocking it out of alignment by hitting it with a foot or knee.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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mjlrpod
Senior Member Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Location: Massachusetts Online Status: Offline Posts: 1215 |
Posted: 09 May 2020 at 10:55am |
I believe the P3 can't be knocked out of alignment. I was told it works on a pendulum and can be at any angle front to back. Of course it must not be mounted side ways which would disable the pendulum.
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2017.5 Rp-172
2020 R-pod 195 2015 Frontier sv 4.0L 6cyl I'll be rpodding |
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StephenH
podders Helping podders - pHp Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 6326 |
Posted: 09 May 2020 at 12:40pm |
If it were accidentally moved while under way, that would affect the pendulum and one might get some rather unexpected braking. The Hopkins control box mounts on the side, out of range of feet or knees.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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offgrid
Senior Member Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
Posted: 09 May 2020 at 2:14pm |
There isn’t a physical pendulum. Those went the way of the dodo bird. The P2 and P3 both have solid state accelerometers like your smart phone, as I’m sure all modern proportional brake controllers do. Much cheaper and better.
As to the P2 vs P3, I don’t find the P2 display difficult to interpret, very simple actually. I’ll save my pennies when I can. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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