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lostagain ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595 |
![]() Posted: 30 Mar 2020 at 3:02pm |
We have successfully combined a mechanical fastener, such as a short coarsely threaded screw, with 3M super double sided foam tape. <https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-23154/3M-Double-Sided-Tape/3M-414-Scotch-Extreme-Mounting-Tape-1-x-60?pricode=WB9107&gadtype=pla&id=S-23154&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxarGt_rC6AIVguNkCh06wg7cEAYYByABEgI30_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds> The tape is inserted between the wall and the thing you are attaching to the wall, but there has to be enough surface area on the item being attached or you won't get strong adhesion. We never had anything come off. But, 10 lbs. attached to the wall is really heavy and, speaking for myself, I'd want multiple fasteners, with all being attached to a structural member for something like that.
Just for fun, before posting this, I weighed our 10" Lodge cast iron skillet. It weighed 5 lbs. I'd never hang something like that on a trailer wall, even with a fastener going into the aluminum frame. Aluminum is famous for giving way to constant pressure, I think they call it cold flow, and eventually the fastener would likely pull out. For things of that weight and up, I'd want it through bolted with washers or multiple fasteners all attached to a structural element.
I tried two different electronic stud finders, one with a metal setting, and got erratic results. I can't speak for others, but the ones I have are too unreliable, even though they find metal studs in my house just fine. |
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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rPodCamping ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Location: Michigan Online Status: Offline Posts: 22 |
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mcarter ![]() podders Helping podders - pHp ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Location: Greenbrier, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 3419 |
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+1 to Lostagain. Stud finders are unreliable, and I have some good ones. The frame is not a standard frame as one would think. It basically follows windows and door in sidewalls.
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Mike Carter
2015 178 " I had the right to remain silent, I just didn't have the ability." |
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JR ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2018 Location: Manistee, MI Online Status: Offline Posts: 375 |
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On a cool night and a warm camper the studs will show off on the outside of the walls and humidity helps (I think that is what is needed) and that Cribbage board has stayed on the wall for about 13,000 miles or until my wife want to play a game but I have used 4 - 16 lb strips, little over kill
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Jay
179/2019 |
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geewizard ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 16 Apr 2017 Location: Spokane Online Status: Offline Posts: 347 |
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I've used this product on a number of applications and it's VERY strong. Don't expect it to ever come off and plan accordingly. I haven't used it yet in my Pod. I got mine from Amazon. |
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2021 Winnebago Micro Minnie 1708FB
2017 R-Pod 177 (Blue) HRE SOLD 2004 Outfitter Apex 8 camper 2014 Toyota Tundra DC |
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rPodCamping ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Location: Michigan Online Status: Offline Posts: 22 |
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It sounds like there are some very strong tapes that will do the job - but we better be sure where we want things attached !!!
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offgrid ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
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lostagain, cold flow (aka creep) is a phenomenon that occurs with some materials when they are subject to mechanical stress at elevated temperatures. That is what the problem has been with Al household wiring from the 70's. Poorly designed and installed electrical terminations get hot from the current flow and then the Al creeps, getting looser and looser until the terminations wind up catching fire. That shouldn't be a problem with mechanical fasteners at normal temps. Another property of Al can be a problem with those. Steel has a fatigue limit, meaning that stresses imposed below that level don't cause fracture (crack) propagation. Aluminum has no fatigue limit, so even low stress levels can cause crack propagation, just more slowly. That's why Al aircraft parts often have life limits, but they're usually in the range of tens of thousands of hours. In reality, neither of these is likely to be a concern with hanging stuff on the aluminum structure of your rPod. The parts aren't under a lot of stress to being with and the over the road stresses don't go on for a long time. If I wanted to hang something heavy to the outer walls I would attach it to the Al tubes, and I'd use multiple self tapping fasteners as suggested. There are specs for fastener shear and pullout strength depending on material type and thickness, or you could do a couple of pullout tests on your fastener of choice in the same material and use that information to decide how many to use. Typical good practice would be to use a 2 or 3x safety factor on top of the 2 to 2.5x bump load increase, so around 6-8x as much fastener strength as the weight of the thing you're hanging. As for 3M tapes, these like the Command ones use adhesives that are in the family of pressure sensitive adhesives (PSA's). They can work well if you are careful to control application conditions, but they can also fail really badly if not applied right, if temperatures are out of range, or if surfaces you are attaching are not compatible or properly prepared. Take a look at the wikipedia article on them for example. Personally I don't trust the adhesive tapes for anything important, especially in one off or field applications where you're not sure you're getting things perfect. I once had a whole 250 kilowatt solar array that someone had the bright idea to attach with VHB tape come apart in a windstorm. Broken glass everywhere. Give me nice properly engineered mechanical fasteners anytime, they are much more tolerant of imperfect application conditions than the PSA tapes are. Our use both, can't hurt. The other thing you can do is attach your stuff to a closet wall where you have access to the other side so you can add backing material and reinforcement that will end up concealed. Then you can attach whatever you want. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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GlueGuy ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 May 2017 Location: N. California Online Status: Offline Posts: 2702 |
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I tried my Franklin ProSensor on the outside of our Rpod and it did a pretty good job finding the aluminum "bones" in the wall. It's not like other stud sensors, as it actually has 13 sensors lined up across the top, and it figures out the differential between the sensors to indicate the different densities.
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bp
2017 R-Pod 179 Hood River 2015 Ford F150 SuperCrew 4WD 3.5L Ecoboost |
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lostagain ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Sep 2016 Location: Quaker Hill, CT Online Status: Offline Posts: 2595 |
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.... multiple fasteners to a structural element, kind of like tearing a phone book in half; easy to tear a few pages at a time, but real hard all together.
Ford is now using adhesive and rivets on their new aluminum bodied trucks from 3M. I hope the chemists and engineers got it right.
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Never leave footprints behind.
Fred & Maria Kearney Sonoma 167RB Our Pod 172 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 2.7 EcoBoost |
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offgrid ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
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There is safety in numbers, so there are lower safety factors that mechanical and structural engineers can use with multiple fastener systems. Most wood construction works like that, multiple fasteners avoid the risk of any one being into a weak spot in say a joist or beam. I'm sure Ford knows what they're doing and I'm not knocking adhesives, they are great in a factory environment where everything is under tight control and you can have confidence that application is consistent. In a one off or field application not so much. We had an adhesion problem in the solar module manufacturing line in one of the solar companies I worked for. After working perfectly for years all of a sudden one day the clear plastic encapsulant in the module laminates stopped sticking to the glass. You could peel off the solar cells and the whole back of the module with your fingers. Everyone freaked out, factory shut down. Not good. Turned out that the glass manufacturer slightly changed the type of coating on the tiny plastic beads that they put between the glass sheets to keep them from sticking together. Even though we washed the glass that was enough to mess with the surface chemistry of the glass and cause things to fall apart that used to stick like crazy. All we had to do was to change the type of soap we used in the glass washer, that activated the glass surface and the stuff went back to sticking like crazy. Took awhile to figure that out though. Point being that you have to know what you're doing and keep everything in control when relying on adhesives. Fasteners can be screwed up too but its usually obvious when that happens. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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