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StephenH ![]() podders Helping podders - pHp ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Online Posts: 6417 |
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I just installed one in the extension cable that I made. It is going to be closer to the panel when it is in use. That will be a 10A fuse. I had a 60A breaker next to the battery, but had to remove it when it apparently went bad. The converter I installed charges at 50A, so the 60A breaker should not have tripped. Then it was tripping at 40A, 30A, etc. before I removed it. The alligator clips that came with it had a 10A inline fuse. My Renogy suitcase is 100 Watt and the Isc rating is 6.1A, so the 10A fuse should be okay.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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offgrid ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
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Sure the solar module also produces power, but its current limited. IOW, if you short out a solar module you only get about 10% more current than you do normally, so its not a problem. OTOH, if you short out a battery you can get hundreds of amps. So, place your fuse at the battery and you'll be fine.
According to the electrical code, you should size the wire and fuse to handle 1.56 times the short circuit current rating of your solar module. That will take care of nuisance fuse blows and higher than normal solar output due to reflections off clouds. You can find the module short circuit current rating (Isc) in the spec sheet.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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Subzilla ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Jan 2017 Location: Concord, NC Online Status: Offline Posts: 302 |
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Got a solar wiring question for you experts. Wiring up my Renogy Suitcase and thinking about fuse placement. Normally you want fuses close to the power source (battery). But isn’t the solar panel the power source in this case?!? So I’m trying to understand the logic here. Thanks
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Mark
Concord, NC 2017 RP 179 "Podzilla" 2011 Silverado 1500 4X4 |
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StephenH ![]() podders Helping podders - pHp ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Online Posts: 6417 |
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I had this mod done before I got the PowerPole connectors and panel kit. However, since I was busy with that, I did not get a chance to write that one up. This one is based on the pattern by John, posted here: http://www.rpod-owners.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9066&KW=&PID=85213&title=3rd-180-mod-furnace-heat-deflector#85213 I did have to modify it a bit as it wasn't fitting the way I thought it should. It is possible I was not reading the template correctly. I ended up adding a stiffener on the top and a hanger and an angle on the bottom to close up the space a bit more which also stiffens the bottom. All exposed edges at the front have a rolled-over edge so it would not have any sharp edges. All was covered with aluminum tape on the seams, then Frost King Duct Insulation. The edges of that were covered with the foil tape also. I tested it, and the heat is properly diverted and the area next to it stays nice and cool from the return air. I will be able to use some of that space for storage now. Now for some pictures: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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geewizard ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 16 Apr 2017 Location: Spokane Online Status: Offline Posts: 347 |
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You did it the same as I did. I have my RPod and a truck camper and use the PowerPole connectors for both. I can move my portable solar panels, and extension cables, between them easily since I use the same connectors everywhere. I soldered all my terminals by the way, no crimping.
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2021 Winnebago Micro Minnie 1708FB
2017 R-Pod 177 (Blue) HRE SOLD 2004 Outfitter Apex 8 camper 2014 Toyota Tundra DC |
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StephenH ![]() podders Helping podders - pHp ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Online Posts: 6417 |
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I did get the PowerPole connectors installed, replacing the MC4 connectors. I probably could have gotten by with lower amperage rated ones. The gray ones are good in that it is the same connection for all pieces and is labeled for + and -. To connect, one side is just turned over and then they slide together, ensuring that + always connects to + and - always connects to -. That is the only way they will connect. I was short one connector which is on order and should arrive tomorrow. The one PowerPole is on the tongue, tied in to the original battery cables. The extension has one at each end. The solar controller has one, and one of the items on order will change the SAE connector from MC4 to PowerPole so it will connect to the solar controller or the extension. I wish I had been remided about the PowerPole connectors before I bought the MC4 tool kit. The crimper will be good for light-weight connectors. The cutter/stripper will be handy as a spare to the one I already have. The MC4 connectors, however, will only be stored now. I found the 10/12 AWG PowerPole terminals to be hard to put on. I had bought a battery lug crimper which works okay. I followed that up with soldering the connectors to be sure they will stay and that they have a good internal connection that won't add resistance. For the solar controller, I removed the original wires with the MC4 connectors and set it aside, replacing them with 10 AWG wire and a PowerPole connector. That way, I can revert it back to factory condition very easily. While doing so, I found that the factory install had not cut the insulation back beyond the point where they fasten. I saw a little bit of flattened insulation where the screw had crushed the insulation also. It is no longer that way.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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offgrid ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
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If you can find an inexpensive source for two conductor SO cord that would be ideal, fine stranding so very flexible with nice thick insulation. But an extension cord is generally going to be cheaper.
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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StephenH ![]() podders Helping podders - pHp ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Online Posts: 6417 |
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Thank you. The alligator clips are fused with a 10A fuse from Renogy. Given that it looks like a smaller gauge wire is used for that harness, I expect that it is appropriate. Thanks for the details. I understand where 10AWG is best now. I definitely would not use 14AWG or 16AWG, both of which I have seen listed for sale. I might opt for 12AWG as I could get a 50' length of two conductor 12AWG wire from one source, but in reality, it would not be at any savings over the 10AWG pre-made extension cord. I'm going to punt this down the road for now since I did get the 25' extension wires. I'm not sure I will need more for now.
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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offgrid ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 23 Jul 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5290 |
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There are two criteria you have to look at when sizing conductors. First is ampacity, which deals with safety, the second is line resistance losses, which deals with efficiency. For 120Vac household circuits you rarely have to worry about line losses, but at 12v it’s a major issue.
So, starting with ampacity, the NEC requirement for solar is to multiply module Isc by 1.56 and select a wire and fuse combination with an ampacity higher than that. Why 1.56? 25% for current enhancement from edge of cloud effects and another 25% to avoid nuisance fuse blows. 1.25x1.25=1.56. Is that conservative? For sure, but being conservative is how the Code keeps us safe. So for ampacity purposes with your module, 6.1x1.56=9.5A so you can use a 10A fuse and a 14 gauge cable. In theory you could even use 16 gauge but the code doesn’t allow for field wiring with conductors smaller than 14. On to voltage drop. General rule of thumb is to keep voltage drop from line resistance to less than 5% or in our case 0.6V. at 12V. You can use one of many free online calculators to find your voltage drop. In this case you can use your Imp of 5.7A as that is normal operating current. At 50 feet you get 0.57V loss with 10AWG. For 12AWG it’s 0.91V which is getting pretty high considering that there are additional voltage losses in the connectors, fuse and fuse block, etc. Nothing stops you from doing it though, it will work and be safe, it’s just not considered best practice. If you parallel the ground conductor with the neutral the loss with 12 would be 3/4 of 0.91=.68V which you might just call good enough in the interest of keeping cost and weight down. Back on the fuse, since 10AWG is good for 30A you can use a fuse rated higher than 10A, the upper limit is probably 15A as that is typically the fuse rating of most solar modules. Hope this long explanation makes sense. |
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1994 Chinook Concourse
1995 RV6A Experimental Aircraft 2015 Rpod 179 - sold |
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StephenH ![]() podders Helping podders - pHp ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Nov 2015 Location: Wake Forest, NC Online Status: Online Posts: 6417 |
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StephenH
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,... ouR escaPOD mods Former RPod 179 Current Cherokee Grey Wolf 24 JS |
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