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Topic ClosedLithium Battery install ?

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StephenH View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lithium Battery install ?
    Posted: 22 Oct 2019 at 8:36am
Originally posted by Olddawgsrule

Response from WFCO
"The converter you have is not an actual lithium converter but will charge to approx.. 90 to 95%.  We do not have a direct replacement converter that is lithium at this time."

We already know it's not a lithium charger. Sorry to see they don't have a add-on or direct replacement. I'm awaiting response now from Progressive Dynamic's. Believe they do.


It does look like PD makes a drop-in replacement for the WFCO converter that will properly charge LiFePO4 batteries.

https://www.progressivedyn.com/lithium-converter-replacement-units/

The model number to replace the WFCO converter is PD4655LIV (55-AMPS). It is available here:

https://www.ltdrvparts.com/searchquick-submit.sc?keywords=PD4655LIV
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2019 at 7:33am
Originally posted by podwerkz

Mine is a combination system....keeping the lead acid batteries where it makes sense, (cost vs benefit) and adding lifepo4 for the additional auxiliary loads. 

If you plan to remove the lead acid batteries, and the wfco converter, and the charge line from the tow vehicle (and will be aware that the monitor panel battery indicators will be useless now) and then add a lithium compatible solar controller and lithium compatible converter charger, all done to go full lithium, you really need a STRONG case for doing so.

If you have that in mind, then go for it. But be prepared to open up your wallet VERY wide.

I thought it was you I read about in another thread that has a portable lithium similar to mine. I use mine as I believe you use yours, auxiliary power, augmenting the house system. 

 I don't even look at those panel lights anymore, I think they are useless now, especially for battery SOC.

I'm researching a couple different ways of doing this with help of a EE friend of mine to see what's feasible without breaking the bank. I'm catching up to him in a couple days. My existing lithium may get used as a proof-of-concept and decide from there how to go. My hopes was to find someone that has switched over and how they did it. So far that person has not popped up.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2019 at 8:27pm
Mine is a combination system....keeping the lead acid batteries where it makes sense, (cost vs benefit) and adding lifepo4 for the additional auxiliary loads. 

If you plan to remove the lead acid batteries, and the wfco converter, and the charge line from the tow vehicle (and will be aware that the monitor panel battery indicators will be useless now) and then add a lithium compatible solar controller and lithium compatible converter charger, all done to go full lithium, you really need a STRONG case for doing so.

If you have that in mind, then go for it. But be prepared to open up your wallet VERY wide.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2019 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by podwerkz

Wow....dont get me started....

Cool

Do have to ask though... carefully mind ya... You on lithium now?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2019 at 3:10pm
Wow....dont get me started....

Cool
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2019 at 12:46pm
Response from WFCO
"The converter you have is not an actual lithium converter but will charge to approx.. 90 to 95%.  We do not have a direct replacement converter that is lithium at this time."

We already know it's not a lithium charger. Sorry to see they don't have a add-on or direct replacement. I'm awaiting response now from Progressive Dynamic's. Believe they do.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2019 at 8:05am
The tow vehicle charging circuit doesn’t go through the wfco battery charger. That just runs from an ac source. When you connect your tv to the trailer you are making a direct connection between the two 12v systems. That works ok because they are both lead acid batteries and the resistance of the wire runs limits the current flowing between the two even if one battery is at a lower voltage than the other. The same direct connection won’t work so well with two different battery chemistries. There are dc dc converters available that can do the job correctly and safely but they aren’t cheap.

The electronics in your Li battery are there to balance the charge on the individual cells. Eventually Li cells become unevenly charged because they never get floated or equalized like they do in a PbA battery. That circuit won’t replace a proper charge controller although some of them do have a high voltage cutoff built in as a safety backup.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 9:30am
Originally posted by offgrid

Ok, I think maybe I understand but let me play it back. You want to replace the rpod House battery with lithium. You want to repurpose a solar charge controller you are presently using to charge a Li battery running a water pump. You are wanting to know if there are any issues if you place that charge controller between the existing battery cables and the new Li battery?

The main battery cables connect the battery to a buss which is in turn connected to the house 12v loads and to the WFCO charger via fuses in your panel. Since current needs to flow both ways in the battery cables that would not be a good place for the solar charge controller. If that controller is set up for the Li battery you can place it in the dedicated Zamp solar charge circuit feeding from the solar connection on the side of the trailer, if you have one,

If you want to charge your Li battery from an ac source I would not recommend using the wfco. It is set up for PbA batteries and is a poorly regulated charger so you could wind up with excessive voltage on the Li battery, which is very bad. Check the charging specs for your Li battery and get an appropriate charger.

You will also need to disable your tow vehicle charging circuit, or replace it with something else like a dc dc converter. Li batteries are actually easy to charge, you don’t need a fancy multistage charger like you do for PbA, but you must not overcharge them, ever.

"Since current needs to flow both ways in the battery cables that would not be a good place for the solar charge controller. "

That's the part I thought would be a problem. The return side. Talking with a EE friend there is a way, yet becoming a PITA to make it work. For $180 it's probably better to just get a Progressive Dynamic's unit. 

"You will also need to disable your tow vehicle charging circuit"

I'm hoping to be emailed a wiring diagram for the PD unit I'm looking at. I have always assumed the TV charging/power goes through the exist WFCO controller. If I go PD, would not that still be happening? 

Going to bring my LiPo over to my EE friend and let him have a closer look. It has a built in charger/balancer. We'll open it up and he'll have a closer look at it. He has some thoughts of how to implement this LiPo, yet he needs a real good look-see first. 

I'll get back to you after we meet up next week.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2019 at 6:52am
Ok, I think maybe I understand but let me play it back. You want to replace the rpod House battery with lithium. You want to repurpose a solar charge controller you are presently using to charge a Li battery running a water pump. You are wanting to know if there are any issues if you place that charge controller between the existing battery cables and the new Li battery?

The main battery cables connect the battery to a buss which is in turn connected to the house 12v loads and to the WFCO charger via fuses in your panel. Since current needs to flow both ways in the battery cables that would not be a good place for the solar charge controller. If that controller is set up for the Li battery you can place it in the dedicated Zamp solar charge circuit feeding from the solar connection on the side of the trailer, if you have one,

If you want to charge your Li battery from an ac source I would not recommend using the wfco. It is set up for PbA batteries and is a poorly regulated charger so you could wind up with excessive voltage on the Li battery, which is very bad. Check the charging specs for your Li battery and get an appropriate charger.

You will also need to disable your tow vehicle charging circuit, or replace it with something else like a dc dc converter. Li batteries are actually easy to charge, you don’t need a fancy multistage charger like you do for PbA, but you must not overcharge them, ever.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2019 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by offgrid

You already have a solar charge controller set up for Li battery charging?

That’s good for the solar but you can’t use a solar charge controller to charge from one battery to another. Solar modules are current sources, meaning that they will provide a limited amount of current (depending on how much sun they’re getting). They will provide current at a range of voltages, so the charge controller can decide what the output voltage limit will be for the battery type you’re using.

Batteries are the opposite, they provide a nearly unlimited amount of current at a fixed voltage. A solar charge controller is unable to change that voltage. If the battery you’re charging is at a lower voltage than the source battery the charge controller will try to supply all the current available, which is a lot, so it will either blow a fuse or burn up. If the battery being charged is at a higher voltage than the source battery the controller will supply no current at all.

Dc to dc converters can charge one battery from another by stepping the input voltage up or down to what you have set the output voltage to, while also limiting the current. But if you try do that youll wind up discharging your supply battery unless you shut off the dc dc converter to protect it.

I have one out at the pond moving water as sunlight hits those panels. That moves water to a container (uphill) with a small dc pump and that water I've used to irrigate with. With that I could a Proof-of-theory and buy another for the trailer.

I think you mis-understood.. I'm not going battery to battery. Converter output (the battery cables) to LiPo controller to Lipo battery. My dual 6v's are gone. Only the LiPo will exist. 
What worries me is the effect (if any) of grabbing the power source off the converter and sending it to another controller (the LiPo controller). I not seeing a conflict, does mean there isn't one, just not seeing it.

Maybe I'm mis-understanding something here.. Not like that hasn't happened before...


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